I especially appreciated the advice that we should address people online as we would in real life and not hide behind anonymity, that we should always show respect and ignore malicious and baiting comments.

I have made similar remarks to the posts quoted. Thank you for holding up the mirror and helping me change.

This reminded me, vaguely, of the Screwtape Letters.

Amen!

C.S. Lewis would be proud. Nice Presentation.

I think these people have too much time on their hands.

Bugstone observes: "There is even a name for our friends that make these nasty upsetting comments. They are called trolls."

Just as there are those out there who "troll" for fish, or "troll" for prostitutes, there are those who "troll" through the Des News, searching for any article that might have some nasty 'comment' potential. I know one of these "trolls"--he just likes to go scrolling through the articles til he finds them, and then trails the bait with with his posts.

Nice try.....come on that was so lame! Come up with something better then that. I can't believe the Mormon times would actually put that on their site...and then expect people to believe that garbage???? Fantasy world....someone has played to much D&D as a kid : )

You mormons are using the old dodge tactic of not listening or caring what people are trying to tell you. You don't like what you hear so you dodge it with a remark like they are just being mean. There are lots, and lots of people who just plain do not like you because you are overbearing and insincere. You say one thing and live something different. You want everyone to join you because you can't stand to take a good hard look at yourselves for what you are.

When I saw that the "correspondence" was modeled after "The Screwtape Letters," I became leery of the article, but I was pleasantly surprised. The author makes some good points, and while it seems to be in the same universe as Screwtape, the voices are distinct, and the scenario is quite timely. Well done!

I recently discovered my own weakness of adding hate to the fire of these blogs. This article is dead on. It is brilliant.

Thank you your so eloquently putting words to solidify something I have been trying to improve in my own life.

Casting the first stone is easy on the internet... Casting the 10th stone is even easier.

Thanks again.

Think and Change - There it is again a double standard

1) You catagorize all Mormons as the same

2) You want us to change to meet your standards

Oh wait a minute maybe we can classify you as a troll - comments made to stir up trouble

What about you? Do you like to hear things you don't want to hear? Are you willing to take a hard look at yourself and change? Or are you already perfect, and right with everything? Think about it. No human being likes change. I can't speak for everyone, but I try. And I don't say one thing and do another. That is stupid. I do what I was taught, to love one another and be happy. It seems that you want everyone to join you because you can't stand to take a good hard look at yourselves for what you are. Taking your words. Just be happy and don't hate.

I like it. Thank you.

Thanks for your comment. I have noticed some of that arrogance in myself and have been working on it. We could all benefit from considering the reasons why we are not liked. Many of them are legitimate and I have learned a lot by actually listening.

We just have to be careful not to listen too much... It's our behavior I'm talking about. I don't think our core values should change.

Dutch,

Think and Change saw a beautiful opportunity here to troll an article about trolling. Don't take the bait.

C.S. Lewis would be sad. This is a pathetic copy of a true master's work. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. Being refered to as a troll is not offensive at all. Stop living under a delusional double standard. Members of the church should be willing to face criticism when they are are being offensive.

He He He!! Fight my little friends...

I have no gripe with the church, i just think people in utah have nothing better to do than gripe about the church because of it's dominant presence in utah. I think those people who complain should move to DC and fight a more important and relevant cause. They have a great spirit but no real cause and it just sounds like a child whining because nobody wants to play with them.
Or you anti mormon people can come move to NY. The land of NOBODY CARES. You too can live a lifestyle in which nobody pays any attention to you regardless of your beliefs...mainly because we all have work to get done. HMM?!?!?! Maybe that the problem, you've (UTAH) got to raise your production level, then everyone will be too busy to care what their neighbors doing and mine their own business. well, thanx for a pleasant visit utah, perhaps someday you will mature like your distant coastal cousins.

YES!!! YES, YES, YES!!!!! It worked! SOMEONE in this universe read the article and then took it to heart. Oh this just makes me so happy. :) Yay for the person who shares a good experience they had. What a testimony-building experience. What a faith-strengthening post. I am so grateful to have read that post. Yes, such a small seemingly inconsequential post strengthened my faith. Thank you, "Thanks" for sharing your comment with the rest of us. What an uplifting post. YES!

Sounds like the devil himself talking...But remember we have the freedom and responsibility to Righteous Judgment...We don't just stick our heads in the sand and try to find good in evil. We speak truth even if it falls on deaf ears. ONE BIT OF ADVICE to Deseret News...YOUR MONITOR needs to use more of his/her righteous judgment in not allowing such evil to be published. 'nuf said.

A great article for each of us, members or not, to take stock of ourselves and not become like the "trolls". Let's face it, taking the "bait" just add fuel and attention to them and not the actual article we read. I live in So. Cal. and love reading Deseret News. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother going to the site let alone making comments against the paper and the church.

...that the composer of this work doesn't realize why C.S. Lewis is one of the most famous authors of all time - because people read his books.

"A mediocre copy of another man's genius."

Nice points, but couldn't they be made originally?

I wish you would temper your comments regarding trolls as you would for any other minority .. I come from a long line of trolls and have been scaring Billy goats and other bridge crossers for many years now without ever posting a derogatory remark on the Des News Internet ... I don't have time to waste .. I have people to scare .. why all of a sudden are my kind "evil" .. we never did anything to you ?? Little tip for Mr Anonymous troll hater ... stay off the bridges .. know what I mean buddy ?

Any comment opens a window into the mind of the commentor. Thats what really scares me.

The Deseret News shouldn't have any problems listed in the article, because all of the Deseret News comments are checked and read by a moderator. Any offensive comments are censored.

I'm not sure why the article didn't mention that fact.

The article sounds like the writer himself took it very personal. Boo Hoo Hoo!

We must also realize that these 'demons' also portray themselves as members attacking the initial 'demon' posting to give the illusion that actual members are being contentious and judgemental. Thank you Mormon Times for such an eye opening article....the adversary dislikes being exposed. I am so happy with my life since becoming a member of the LDS Church. The work will progress.

I feel I am a little bit guilty of the things discussed in the article. I ask all of you whom I have offended to forgive me. As for NY, I'd love to go there. I wanted to study music at Juilliard. I think it must be a city full of wonders. My husband said it was amazing. I'll probably never live there because most of my family is here in Utah and Washington State. I can't believe that nobody cares in NY. JCNY appears to care. I know that when I visited Boston, which I absolutely loved, that many people were kind and caring. When I cried all over the John Adams Historic Site, they were very nice to me. John Adams is my HERO! His wife Abigail, also. I felt the spirit tell me that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were inspired documents from God. (I do know that John Adams did not help write the constitution.) What a wonderful land we live in. I adore our country, and I love the blessings the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has brought into my life. I love my neighbors regardless of their different religions.

Does anyone know how you go about leaving the church? I'm sure some of you are LDS and can help. Thanks!

re: troll - that was pretty funny. I'm sorry your honorable troll-kind have been usurped as scapegoats for less worthy causes!

In regards to the article: I thought it was genius bit of work written "with great deference to C.S. Lewis" (as was noted in the post-script). I am one of those who reads the comments frequently but only posts occasionally. I usually skip over most of the comments these days for precisely the reasons enumerated by Bugstone and Nailstrip. But I appreciate greatly all those that post thoughtful, well-reasoned, well-written, intelligent, and uplifting comments--and these types of comments have been made by people (yes, real people!) with viewpoints with which I both agree AND disagree. I simply appreciate the people that have made me think, "Hmm, you have a good point."

Last, in regards to treating people like people: in my neighborhood my goal is to learn the names of all the people that live around me. This is not an easy task since I have neighbors from Korea, Palestine, Thailand, Europe, and South and Central America, who all have different-spelled and different-sounding names. But I find I treat people more as "people" when I know their names.

That was a great article. I have been rolling my eyes for months at the comments on the message boards. Everything they mentioned was dead on. The trollers, the retaliators, people not treating others as people, but simply electrons on the screen. I have a hard time believing so many people are so socially awkward in real life. I once had a friend tell me you could count any post, regardless of the topic, go to an argument about religion in 5 posts or less.

The problem is...I suspect this went right over most people's heads. Tomorrow...and probably today, everyone will be back to flame wars again. Even this thread had deteriorated and had trollers. Ah well. The point was at least made elloquently enough. Bravo.

Some on-line posters are similar to some talk-show hosts in that they delight in eliciting controversy and contention. While it's certainly permissible and even advisable to correct misinformation, LDS posters should be careful not to be drawn into arguments, name-calling, personal attacks, illogical reasoning, and the use of the same propaganda techniques as those used by anti-Mormon or anti-Christian attackers. Yet I don't think the members of any group should allow misinformation, deceptive manipulation of facts, statements taken out of context, and outright lies to stand without an effort to provide the public with correct and accurate information about the LDS church's teachings, history and membership. Some religious bigots are so prejudiced that their comments need no rebuttal at all for they illuminate the small-mindedness and illogic of their authors. I've often read, for example, such statements as "Mormons are liars," or "Mormons are racist" or "Mormons can't think for themselves." No halfway intelligent citizen could read such statements without seeing their illogical thinking and bigoted stereotyping. It takes a bit more understanding to discern the lies that anti-LDS writers sometimes try to pass off as fact, such as the witnesses to the Book of Mormon recanted their testimonies.

The church may be ok if all the stupid nonmembers and inactives would all fly to another planet. I hate them all. They make me sick! Idiots!

All comments are moderated. That means that before they are approved and posted online a moderator from the Deseret News has approved the content as not offensive or off-topic.

All comments that make it through have been approved by the Deseret News.

Lisa = Troll

It is easy to get caught up in anonymous dueling online -- thank you for this reminder of online ettiquette!
There are times I want to lash back at comments, being clever & witty, but not really thinking of who I am replying to. So many times, I haven't felt good about what I was writing and have trashed my comments without sending them.
The times I feel good about commenting are when I share something respectfully that I feel strongly about, but without slamming the thoughts of the other person.
I think what I've learned from this is to "say what Jesus would say," lovingly, kindly, with respect to the freedoms of others to disagree, and not be offended if someone does disagree.

I think this article really hits the nail on the head with all of the things going on in message boards and comments all over the internet.

As a Mormon myself, I am so grateful for having the opportunity to talk about my faith on the internet. In the past, we could only share our testimonies with people via word of mouth over great distances. Now with the advances in the internet and also a few members who are constantly in the news, the Church of Jesus Christ is being talked about constantly.

I don't think it is mere coincidence that online communication and Mitt Romney are getting bigger and bigger at the same time. I believe that God has a message that needs to get out, and he's using these mediums to do it.

Exactly why I left the church. People like you. Mormon church is a pretend faith anyway.

Good point Mr. John Lambert
Sometimes even the negative hateful comments make it through the moderator. I have found reading the posts that just as many hateful comments come LDS members as they do from nonmembers and inactive members. It's pretty humorous reading them to say the least.

Re: Darrin | 8:50 a.m. July 16, 2008

Better to judge someone else than look inside and find your own faults, eh?

Re: Lisa | 9:34 a.m. July 16, 2008

Let me guess you gave the lesson, last Sunday in Relief society, on charity, compassion, & tolerance? Lol.

Kenvin, can you explain what D&D is, I do not recongnize that

Where can I find more articles like this? I am so happy that someone in Utah is finally getting this out. Too much judging in that crazy faith. Unless you're one of them, you are nothing to them. If you don't conform with them, they want nothing to do with you. Great Article!

Thank you Michael for your article. I have had a hard time reconciling Elder Ballard's direction and the contentious world of readers' comments. Your article has helped me greatly, particularly the quotations from Church leaders and scholars. I now feel more comfortable sharing my comments.

A lot of times, message boards may seem to be full of people who are trolling. In reality, it is probably 1 or 2 people who are posting under different names - even attacking themselves to stir up a fight.

For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the posters above, "Lisa" and "To Lisa" are the same person just trying to cause trouble.

I would suggest that message boards capture a posters IP address and display a brief message such as, "also posted, COMMENT X, COMMENT Y, COMMENT Z...etc". I think this would go a long way in deterring the problems described in the article.

This should apply to ALL of us, regardless of our religions. Live the message, sports fans.....Talk the talk and walk the walk. GREAT article. (oh, btw...Catholic boy here, very devout)

If the monitor did that, that would defeat the purpose. We all have the right to choose. It is up to each of us to be kind to those that despise us, Love those that hate us. Elder Ballard has wise counsel that might help us become a little bit better.

I was the one that posted the (To Lisa:) comment. My name is Jared not Lisa. No, I'm not trying to stir up anything. I'm just proud not to be LDS anymore. Thanks for your insight though.

Applause for this homage to the Screwtape Letters! May we all have more respect and class as we post and discuss--myself included. Nothing makes Mormons look worse than Mormons themselves--and posters pretending to be Mormon (yes, we all know THAT happens, too!)--writing nasty comments they'd never actually say out loud to a real person.

I've observed these and other comment boards for quite some time. Believe it or not, not only do I actually have a life--but occasionally reading online commentary is part of that life. (Long story, yes.) So I fully agree that anonymous comment boards tend to bring out the worst in all of us.

These boards encourage nastiness--because we all know we can get away with it here. Sadly, this DesNews "name yourself" setup would make a troll out of Gandhi! A number of other news sites require commenters to register with an identity label. They're still a bit out of control, but not to the excess we see here.

I recommend identity registration for these DesNews forums, too. That won't eliminate the "snarkiness"--but it'll at least reduce it.

I had always look to the S.L. Tribune for news and comments. This was seven months ago, but the comments had got so bad I don't check this place. I look now to the Deseret News and have notice a lot of down comments coming in. Its a good LDS paper and its up to us to clean up or it will be as the other paper. (now or was?)We are LDS, and we are a different type of people in this world and the non- LDS see we are different.

Looks like members and nonmembers all troll alike. I ask you- Who's the better troll?

Re: TROLL---YOU ARE A TROLL! Your kind of Troll is obvious, the kind that lives deep in a pit within the ground.