Those who lack forsight will pay the price of ingnorince in the future. If you don't look at thier agenda of what they really want then you will pay the price of apithy

Who are we going to blame the fall of civilization as we know it on then? That whole "liberals" thing isn't working as well as it used to, and the attack on the "trash" in entertainment was doing fine until some know-it-all had to suggest "turning it off", so now what?

Sunday School might get mighty boring without lamenting how evil the world is all the time, ya know!

Roger,

It is our business. Parents are the most local authorities. They have complete control over children's lives. Family is the central unit of society. How "family" is defined effects us all.

I'm sure the inhabitants of Sodom and Gommorah are still waiting for their vindication too.

It's so sad that the writer feels this way. The entire prospect of gay "marriage" demonstrates the degeneracy of society. Many societies in history have declined and disappeared due to moral decay.

These are pathetically broken people who are living in denial. I feel a great deal of sympathy for them, but their agenda in completely wrong.

I hope that the people of California and other states will rally to protect the sanctity of true marriage and the traditional family.

If we reach the point where we have no reverence for traditional marriage and the sacredness of the family, there isn't much time left for us.

It will because it will be written in Chinese following the fall of the decadent american empire - just as happened to the decadent greek, roman, and every other empire that lost (or threw away) its moral compass.

Which version of history? Man's or God's?

of having religion if you cant tell others that they are wrong and condeming them? Live and let live is to simple of a concept.

Don't you haters have better things to do than repeat the tired justifications for promoting divisiveness?

Shouldn't you be spending time with your families? After all their very existence is hanging by a thread.

You better be sure to teach them your bigotry or it may just die out when you do.

Heterosexual, traditional, 'sanctified', sacred marriage is doing fine trashing itself. It's tossed its' own moral compass. Maybe inviting a few people in who are willing to commit to one another in spite of bigotry, open disdain and hatred isn't a bad thing. Anyway, arguments loaded up with mormon jargon don't cut it with me.

John, please tell us about this gay agenda and "what they really want". The people who are truly living in denial are those who think gay people are living miserable, pathetic lives - that's just not the case. Sure, we've all had to come to grips with our social status, but most of us move on and live happy and productive lives. I think what people are so afraid of is that we've finally had enough of the name calling and accusations and are finally pushing back. We're productive, contributing, law-abidng, tax-paying Americans whose rights are protected by the Constitution- so quit blaming us when we try to exercise them. If I have an agenda it's to get people's noses out of my business so I have the opportunity to focus on what's really important in life.

Cats, you sure seem to know a lot about the mental health of all gay people. Based on your continually negative comments I think you might be projecting your own mental state on the gay community. And spare them your sympathy. It's not only hollow - it's unnecessary.

LJ, it sounds like you have not been getting the weekly news letters we have been sending you outlining how we are going to RULE THE WORLD (pinky and the brain style of course) You should have received the manifesto with your free toaster when you signed up with the Gay Alliance to Scare Straight People (GASP), I know a dumb name but it makes a great acronym. Anyway look for the direct mailer this fall. :)

None of our business?

Someone pointed out that in MA 12 year olds can get married. And now that MA allows people from other states to come and get married, it may become much more difficult to prosecute pedophiles around the nation, be they hetero or homosexual. While their marriage may not be recognized in their home state, the fact that it is recognized in another state creates legal complications when prosecuting.

This letter is absolutely correct.
A well known Utahn once said that the civil rights movement was nothing but a communist plot. How accurrate was that?

What exactly is 'the gay agenda'? Is it that they want to be treated as human beings? Is it that they want the same legal rights as those were born with a different sexual attraction?
What is the fear from the neoCONs?

Since so many people seem fixated on the “GAY AGENDA” (scary music added for effect) I thought I would post my agenda for the day:
8:00-9:00 brush death (begin outlive to take over the world)
9:00-11:00 sleep through morning meeting (all the while dreaming of ruining society)
11:00-12:00 sip latte at desk while pretending to work on computer (plot mass destruction)
12:00-1:00 lunch
1:00-3:00 convince boss I am working on paperwork (all the while sending evil emails to my best friend Gayle)
3:00-4:45 sleep through afternoon meeting (morning coffee has worn off)
4:45-5:00 take over the world

OOPS that is suppose to read teeth not death, I think I have said to much, I must now step up the pace of my plans. Well I quess we know where my mind was.

LJ, words have meaning and the Constitution is mute on gay marriage. Nowhere in the world's history has marriage ever been defined as between same sex couples until recently. You can call it a civil union and sanctify it by passing a state law if you need to but trying to re-define marriage in the name of some fictional constitutional right is a mistake. The Constitution is already suffering enough from activist judges and ludicrous laws that go unchallenged. Same sex unions is the states business, not the Feds.

I'm sick of these:

Gay is okay--no it's not
It's in the bible--the bible says a lot of things
It's genetic--no it's not
You're a hypocrite--so are you
You're a bigot--so are you
You hate--so do you
Gay marriage is the end of the world--proove it is
You're a sinner--We all are sinners
God said____--God also said___

Everyone finger pointing, repeating the same stuff over and over doing their hampstrer on a wheel routine.

Why do all the straight people keep writting these letters about gay marriage then say it's the homosexual pushing the gay agenda?

It's a loooooong time til November, pace yorselves on this topic people.

religious issue. The constitution does not say anything about Marriage between a Man and a Woman either, so therefore, you can't marry, so there.

As a religious issue, let each church deal with it as they want, some will marry gays some won't. The constitution does say that there shall be no law defining how/which/why Church is to be observed. Therefore, this issue should not be defined in ANY Constitution.

Reynolds vs. The United States (1878) " Marriage, while from its very nature a sacred obligation, is nevertheless, in most civilized nations, a civil contract, and usually regulated by law. Upon it society may be said to be built, and out of its fruits spring social relations and social obligations and duties, with which government is necessarily required to deal. In fact, according as monogamous or polygamous marriages are allowed, do we find the principles on which the government of the people, to a greater or less extent, rests. An exceptional colony of polygamists may sometimes exist for a time without appearing to disturb the social condition of the people who surround it; but there cannot be a doubt that, unless restricted by some form of constitution, it is within the legitimate scope of the power of every civil government to determine whether polygamy or monogamy shall be the law of social life under its dominion." Society has every right to follow the law in determining where they will draw the line. If we open up same sex marriage, do we allow polygamy between consenting adults? Where do we draw a line? Or should we ever draw a line?

Maybe next time you want to tell a lie you might want to select a subject that is not so easy to research. The legal age to marry in MA is 18, not 12 as you try to claim.

THANKS A LOT know I have Brittany stuck in my head. Oops I did it again, I gave you my……. Ahhhhh make it stop

If I could just learn to spell and type I would be golden. sorry ladies and gentlemen.

Yipeeeeeee! Sick of the whining has brought out the slippery slide (formally known as the slippery slope argument) lets all go get our swimming suits.

Simply stating that the Supreme Court in 1878 stated that marriage is a fundamental building block in society, and that society has a right to draw a line in respect to what they find represents societal norms in respect to civil marriages. Gasp, if you see anything beyond that as a slippery slope, go ahead and put on your rainbow suit.

So your logic is based on an idea that goes something like this. 1000 people a day get robbed, raped, and murdered. I or my family, neighbors, or church weren't harmed so why should it concern me? I was an idiot for feeling emotional pain for someone outside my circle? As long as evil doesn't affect me and mine initially or immediately then why worry, be happy?

With logic like yours permeating our society is it any wonder why our children kill their classmates without feeling and we scratch our heads and can't figure it out.

" This is a | 9:06 a.m. July 17, 2008
religious issue. The constitution does not say anything about Marriage between a Man and a Woman either, so therefore, you can't marry, so there."

Oye! The ignorance here is frightening. The tenth amendment dude. Read it. If its NOT in the Constitution, then the states and the people reserve that right to themselves....

Did you even go to school??

This is NOT a religious issue (although religions may choose to issue an opinion), it is a civil issue. An issue in which the members of state may choose to follow the outlines of their constitution and amend it to forbid same sex marriage if they decide that is what they want to do. Did you go to school?

I am with you up to the point that the original post states “If we open up same sex marriage, do we allow polygamy between consenting adults?” and oh this is my favorite part “Or where do we draw the line?” (Ominous music playing in the back ground) sorry, but it does not get any slipper then that, I will get that rainbow suit know. Thanks

9:12,

You wrote: "Maybe next time you want to tell a lie you might want to select a subject that is not so easy to research. The legal age to marry in MA is 18, not 12 as you try to claim."

No. It's 12 for girls and 14 for boys.

Maybe you're thinking about the age of consent. You probably didn't know that parents can consent to marriage in their child's behalf when the child is under 18.

I am sometimes mistaken, but I never lie. I never make statements I can't back up. When people think I'm wrong, it's usually because they haven't delved into it as deeply as I have - or they misunderstood what I was saying.

Recently, for instance, Jackhp accused me of claiming that gay marriage would lead to children being taken from their parents. He has no apparent comprehension of what I actually said.

As for research: good research is seldom easy.

This is a 9:06 a.m., July 17, 2008 issue, and yet you are the one going clear back to the Constitution for your argument. Certainly for one so constitutionally minded, you also see the relevance of Supreme Court cases which have some impact on legal precedent. By the way, this is not about anyone's religious right to same sex marriage, but about their civil right to unite in marriage.

"How 'family' is defined effects (sic) us all."

Whatever do you mean Ryan? Do tell us more . . . please?

A dear John letter(post). This whole thread reminds me of a scene from oceans 13. (yes, we watch those types of movies too)
Casino owner: You think this is funny?
Oceans: It shore as heck is not sad.

Someone always has to bring up the Romans and the Greeks and then blame their fall on homosexuality. News flash!!! Those empires fell due to a lot of reasons, homosexuality not being one of them. Do you all think America will be around forever? Someone always goes up, and someone always goes down, it is the way.

Ryan Larsen, June 26th, 2008 "Who defines 'family'?"

"So with states like California ruling that 'family' is a structure ordained by the state (not ordained by nature), it is only a matter of time before 'progressives' cite the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to claim that since children belong to the state they need to be divided up equally among all 'families' (i.e., if 'families' are not based on biological order, one cannot claim familial rights based on biology)."

I think the implications in your letter are quite clear Ryan: legalizing gay marriage will eventually lead to claims (from "progressives" no less) that the state divide children up equally among all "families".

You have never provided an alternate explanation for what your letter actually meant. So, I ask again, if I've misunderstood you, please, do tell, what in the "heck" are you talking about?

Gasp, Is this slope that you refer to one which descends or ascends? To many fighting this battle, crossing this metaphorical line toward a slope, means that there is an opportunity to ascend. Bring your rainbow suit and sherpa.

If we can redefine torture, I don't see why we can't redefine marriage as well. They're nearly the same in my book.

ummmmm! I like the way you think Metaphores. I will be the one in the smart looking hat!

Like Roe v Wade the gay marriage thing will soon die down and the wacko neocons who love to push their twisted form of "morality" on the world will once again fade into the sunset.
It's already happening.

I was under the impression that the gay "marriage" in MA is only for those who claim residency in MA. In otherwords, people outside the State wanting a "marriage" cannot use the MA Law. Therefore, that wouldn't hold truth to Ryan's claim.

Metaphores unfortunately for the most of the people that post here there is only one way society can go and that is down. Believing such things is a sad way to live your life. Life is to short to take yourselves so serious all the time.

To Roger:

Is that going to affect your business?

Yes. As the law would be written, anyone could approach the court for tax benefits based on "long-term relationships" - grandmother to grandson, friend to friend. This will create havoc in our tax system.

Is that going to harm your 40 year marriage?

To the degree that legalizing same gender marriage has a history of contributing to the moral breakdown of society which precedes economic breakdown, your 40 year marriage will indeed be harmed by this breakdown. We are at the cusp of prosperity. However, population demographics show that we are entering into decline. Unlike drilling for oil, we can’t drill for more children to suddenly populate and produce economically in the next 5-10 years. These will be tough times for the next generation that will challenge every marriage.

Is it cause for religion to comment about?

Yes. In countries where same gender marriage is legal and hate crimes enacted, religious freedom is denied. Churches are silenced or fined for preaching that homosexuality is a sin. As for vindication, as Cal Thomas aptly stated, “I’ve read the Book. In the end, we win.”

Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Education Research

In the MA state website, under "For Residents", "Family", "Getting Married or Sharing a Household", and "Obtaining a Marriage License in Massachusetts" it states "The legal age to marry in Massachusetts is 18 (M.G.L. ch. 207, s. 33A)". A parent can consent to marriage at a younger age BUT a Probate or District Court judge has to authorize the marriage based on what is best for the child in question. I am fairly certain that a judge would not allow a 12 year old child to marry. Nice try though.

DBG,
The MA State Senate recently voted to overturn the law requiring residency to obtain a marriage license. The State House is expected to concur soon.

Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Fear Campaign (not so much on the facts though)

Charlyn is right if we do not have children for the next generation of gay converts how are we going to push our agenda and keep those free toasters coming in. you hetro’s better get busy out there (I mean everyone knows gay people never have kids, I have heard it here enough that it must be true) and to make matters worse as soon as we get gay marriage legalized we are coming after your husbands. I do have one question though, if Uncle Cal is so sure that you win in the end why are you people so stressed out over this? Come on enjoy the slippery slide, the fall of society is just part of the grand plan towards the second coming right? And they say the gay lifestyle is an unhappy way to live, you people are depressing.

To Ernest T. Bass | 8:22 a.m. July 17, 2008
How accurate is it that civil rights movements are “communist plots?”

Saul Alinksy’s Rules for Radicals will tell you. All proletariat movements are controlled by Marxian tactics. Socialism is the leech and parasite of every form of unrest and discord throughout history. That’s why when I was a delegate to the U.N. International Women’s Year during the mid-70s feminist movement, gays and lesbians were leading out with banners flaunting hammer and sickle insignias. I have photos that the press didn’t dare print. The media have been the ultimate “gas-lighters” of this culture revolution.

Barack Obama calls himself a “community organizer.” Go to Amazon and Google to learn more about what that means. To perpetuate proletariat discord, real or not, is an imperative tactic and the lifeblood of a socialist/Marxist/egalitarian movement.

Civil rights based on ethnicity and race is a true civil right. Perverted sexual behavior is never a civil right because it conflicts with natural law, upon which the Constitution was based, and it contributes to the destruction of the natural family, the foundation of every civilization.

Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
World Class Education Research

"communist plot" Cherilyn you have been reading my post haven’t you. You better be careful we may corrupt your mind and screw up your revisionist history. You may actually know what “proletariat” means and dare I say the difference between “communist” and “socialist”. AHHHHHH! Run for the hills. Before you even bother asking no I will not give you a serious answer, I am having way to much fun lampooning you!

Well, given the strongly adverse evolutionary trait of an inability to procreate, if anything, history will probably eradicate gays.

According to the completely inviolable law of survival of the fittest, not reproducing oneself is probably the single worst thing anyone can do, as a specimen, to perpetuate a species. Or, as in the case of homosexual homo sapiens, a sub species.