Thank you, Greg Bell. There's even more to this topic than you've
raised here. There are compelling reasons for us to retrench our foul language.
It's fouling us culturally and personally, especially those who use and
tolerate these words, which are connected to ideas and beliefs. If our ideas
and beliefs can't be powerfully expressed without obscenity and
profanity—if we have actually developed a taste for it—what have we
become? One commenter flippantly said "it's nothing, just
combinations of letters." That's a false belief. I hope to hear more
from people who can make the case.
@NonameacceptedNot sure how using well publicized current events to
help support your comment is a rant ? I think I may have got a nerve there. a
very strong negative reaction to someone just trying to support you.
No NamesMr Trump's biggest "sin" is not his use of
language, which in and of itself is disgusting. His biggest sin is his exact
words.His allegations, starting with the "birther" claims,
progressing to insulting the handicapped, minorities and the appearance of some
women, and most recently false allegations of spying by the Brits, are an
assault on truth and decency. And, oh, are there more.Has he no
shame? I can learn to live with a few "f" bombs, but
"mis-stating" truth in a Chief Executive and leader of the Free World in
unconscienable. That is the profanity Mr Bell ought to speak about. Not dirty
words in movies. We can avoid movies, we can not avoid the President.
@tolstoy:It is a shame that those on the left are so addled by an
election going against their desires that they are now turning every single
topic into some kind if partisan rant. Such obsession with anything is grounds
for a professional mental health checkup I think.But you are right
about Trump in this case...and about those so unhappy with him. Trump's biggest sin to many seems to be his course language. Those who
call others immature names for wanting to avoid profanity in their
entertainment, are having daily caniption fits about the words that Trump
speaks.The irony, nay hypocrisy, is rich.Either they are
just words offensive only because someone chooses to be a hypersensitive prude,
or, they are the means of conveying racism, bigotry, and misogyny, along with
craziness, disrespect to the sacred, contempt for civility and decency.Which is it?If media is harmless then Trump is just repeating what
media pumps,out every day. If words matter, then you and I are justified in
disliking Trump's craziness, courseness, and foul language.He
is not as bad as Hillary, but he is offensive.
A wise man wrote: Foul language is simply the pitiful attempt of a feeble mind
to express itself forcefully. How true.
@NoNamesAcceptedI have to say I actually agree. Given Trumps bad
week I would say words defenetly matter. He shot himself in the foot with his
words about Muslims and was roundly scolded by members of his own party over his
wild accusasssions about Obama. Words matter.
If words are just words without any importance, then they can no more convey
artistic license or freedom of speech than they can convey profanity, vulgarity,
or blaspheme.You can't have it both ways.If the
words have no real meaning, no reason to be banned or taken as offensive, then
they have no real meaning and no reason to be protected or even uttered at
all.So are the words meaningless? Or crucial to self expression?
And if crucial, they have enough meaning to be offensive and something that
others have a right to avoid.There are cases, rare cases, of those
who use profanity as something akin to art. There are those who string together
profanity with so much talent and creativity as to be at least interesting and
entertaining. An endless string of meaningless F-bombs used as 6 different
parts of speech by those who cannot name the parts of speech is just evidence of
shallow vocabulary and shallow thinking.We think using the words we
speak. I wonder how many today can even think truly deep or serious thoughts
given their inability to get a sentence out without using Carlin's 7 banned
I would swear alot before I had kids but I would never swear in front of kids.
That is my biggest bet peeve in public. All adults and even
teenagers should not swear in front of kids out of respect.
@2bitsThe research you site supports your claims of harm but they do not
support claim that "My opinion is if you need profanity to communicate...
you're not a very good communicator." which is a different argument.
There has been some significant research that has been replicated that shows
just the opposite and that is n fact those who use profanity actually have a
larger vocabulary of none profane words then those that do not. Scientific
America wrote a good article titled "is swearing a sign of limited
@DesperadoUte,RE: " LDS people are never going to get across-the-board
validation for their beliefs and standards."...---We're not
expecting Hollywood to validate our beliefs or standards. Does anybody expect
that (even non-LDS people)?LDS people are no different on profanity
than a LOT of people out there in America. We are not super-different. You
don't have to be LDS to not approve of profanity. I know lots of people
who aren't LDS, and don't approve of profanity.I'm
more concerned with the profanity my kids hear daily at Jr High than I am about
profanity in Movies. But a big contributor to that trend towards more
profanity at the Jr High comes from examples they see in the media, and
naturally try to emulate their heroes in music, movies, TV, etc. So is it OK
to be concerned about that?Not asking them to validate my beliefs...
just not push the profanity so much.It affects the kids. They pick
it up and emulate it. And kids watch kids at school and think it's OK
(even though their square parents are teaching something different at home).A lot of this starts in the media we watch. And the kids they look up
to at school.
I don't feel as Latter-day Saints that we can expect Hollywood to comply
with our standards and with what define as moral. That's not realistic.
Movies are always going to contain an element of profanity....it's just a
given. Doesn't make it right....I get that. But to your point that your
family can watch a filtered version of a movie, then watch those....because the
profanity in movies isn't going away anytime soon. LDS people are never
going to get across-the-board validation for their beliefs and standards.
@LauraRE: "2Bits, I am wondering why you didn't get up and tap
her on the shoulder and politely tell her that she was talking loud enough to be
easily heard by everybody in that part of the car"...---She
wasn't sitting close to me. She was sitting 4 rows behind me. I'm
not going to crawl over the guy next to me and walk back and reach over the poor
guy sitting next to her to tell her what she already knew. She knew we could
hear her.===RE: "did she actually say,
"Icouldn't get signed up for social security today to pay for
everything I want"...---I know it's hard to believe, but
pretty much yes. Not verbatim (we have limited words here). Main complaints
were:-How stupid and rude SS people are-Angry birth certificate
wasn't sufficient to sign up so she has to come back-Said needed
money for food and rent (and drugs evidently). An old friend entered the train
late in her conversation and she conducted a 3-way conversation because he was
good friends with the person on the phone too. He was their drug rehab
counselor years ago.She was a well dressed well groomed young lady.
But very loud and profane. Maybe her cell phone requires her to talk real loud.
So the media shouldn't report what the POTUS said or says. The media
reporting it is some how at fault, instead of the person who said it.Trump has changed America.I would much rather hear someone swear,
than I would have someone lie to me. One actually effects me. The other is
religious dogma trying to shame others, into one sided respect.
In my opinion, profanity is not just inappropriate words.Profanity
is also lack of respect for the truth, for intentionally misleading the
ill-informed, for scapegoating and for ill treatment of the least of us.I can deal with the "f" bomb, but a person who goes out of
his/her way to mistreat or mislead another person is infinitely more profane
than a dirty ditty.
@2Bits, I am wondering why you didn't get up and tap her on the shoulder
and politely tell her that she was talking loud enough to be easily heard by
everybody in that part of the car.That would have been the thoughtful
thing to do.And did she actually say, "Icouldn't get
signed up for social security today to pay for everything I want"? Or maybe she's maybe the same woman who told Bachmann that her 12
year old daughter "developed mental retardation" right after her HPV
" (That the [VidAngel ] rental was only $1 and movies were instantly
streamable contributed greatly to its success as well.) The VidAngel case
presents other complex legal issues with a lot of money at stake. Still,
it’s one more instance of Hollywood fighting any attempt to filter
inappropriate or undesirable content. Fortunately, we still have
ClearPlay."Thank you for saying out loud what VidAngel hinted at
(but would never admit): that the "sale for $20 and buy back for $19) was a
fiction to cover up the fact that they were renting movies without paying
royalties to the studios. It makes no difference if VidAngel had streamed the
movies without erasing a single profanity or streamed their sanitized
version--the unauthorized theft of the intellectual property is the same.You're being disingenuous when you say that Hollywood is
"fighting any attempt to filter out inappropriate or undesirable
content". ClearPlay does just that, and nobody's suing them. The
difference, of course, is that the ClearPlay customer is paying a royalty to the
studio for each movie shown.
@HutteriteRE: "They're just words. Assemblages of
letters"...---Pretty sure everybody knows it's the intent,
not the assemblage of special letters that makes something profanity.What we're talking about is the actual profanity being used in
today's media, not the letters.I think the use of profanity is
becoming more common, and more casual. In a way, hearing it all the time gives
it less impact. But still it's a problem. That's what we're
talking about.I agree you can make anything profane you want. Just
by the way you say it. The senders intention is one factor. The
receiver's perspective is also important. As in any communication.Casual use of profanity (like comedians etc) is usually not intended to
be offensive but it is still profanity.My opinion is if you need
profanity to communicate... you're not a very good communicator. It's
not needed. And it's not harmless.Google "BYU study:
Hearing profanity may lead to more aggressive acts"...Also
Google "Can profanity in media hurt? - Washington Times"...
Agreed.Starts from the Top down.Donald Trump is our national
vulgarian.Please wash his filthy mouth out with soap.
Greg Bell is absolutely correct. The media is shirking its responsibility to
protect society from profanity. It used to be that the media shunned
profanity like the plague it is. However, the influence of modern Hollywood has
caused the rest of media to promote profanity in an effort to seem "hip"
and "cool". Whereas the media once went to pains to omit profanity, it
now gleefully prints and airs language so foul it would make even Kaiser Wilhelm
II blush with shame.I call on all responsible parents and
grandparents to boycott forms of media that promote profanity. We owe the
children no less than this.
RE: "One can’t hear these gross words and not be tainted. "Oh really? . . . . Maybe so.I have a plan.Let's just get rid of the F word, the S word, and the R word and replace
them all with the T word.As in . . . . . . I really
don't give a Trump.. . . Trump it, who cares?. . .
Ugh, what a stinking, steaming pile of Trump!That way, Donald Trump
could be credited with actually doing something positive for America.That's called making lemonade out of lemons.
Carlin knew. They're just words. Assemblages of letters. We
make them profane.
Mr BellYou have said, and I quote "Profanity degrades those who
use it and those who hear it. It coarsens human interaction. It speaks to the
lowest impulses in us. Profanity combines with the increasing incivility and
crude sexual talk in our society to demean our conversation."The
media is a legitimate target based on this series of assumptions. But why not
expand this assessment to our nation's leaders? After all, our new
President is clearly heard using foul language to demonstrate his apparent power
over women. Please stand up on your bully pulpit, and criticize
everyone who engages in gartuitous profanity.
I know. This is part of what turned me against Trump and his campaign. His
constant use of profanity in speeches and interviews with the media.
Didn't vote for him.Profanity is ubiquitous in the media and
our society.I was asking my wife yesterday... why is it that people
who can't get a sentence out of their mouth without at least one (but
usually many) profanities, have to talk on their cell phones at the top of their
voice when they are on TRAX so everybody can hear them?Also wondered
why these loud cell talkers always seem to have messed up lives they want to
talk loud about all the time.They seem to want everybody to hear
their business. Why is that?I lady on the way home yesterday was
talking so everybody on the whole car could hear about her new lawyer she got to
represent her in her murder case, and complaining about her drug counselor and
her kids, and complaining that she couldn't get signed up for Social
Security today to pay for everything she wanted. 30 minutes and she never shut
up or even quieted down. She was like 25 years old, very healthy, and wants to
be on Social Security? Just because her life is a mess?