You know, D&C 121:8 and 1 Peter 2:20 come to mind. If he "endures it
well" and is "true and faithful." I have come to my know for myself
that those who struggle with this (either naturally or by choice) and indeed
endure to the end and do not yield to unrighteousness (Romans 6:13) will be
received into eternal rest with the Lord (2 Peter 1:11). I would even go as far
to say that with how powerful the emotions are that accompany the procreative
power and to resist them a whole life time, they will be granted almost
immediate entrance. And what a relief it will be when death comes and that
burden is lifted.I do believe that those who "call on
Jesus's Holy name" will receive relief in this life (Alma 13:28-29),
and "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but
God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able;
but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to
bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13).
The question, "who would choose this?" infers unhappiness.
As rude and worldly as this sounds, sexuality is a learned behavior and CHOICE.
That sounds offensive unless you reframe it. Can you have attractions and
relations to same sex, underage children, only specific colors, chubby people,
animals, only strange, new partners ?? Hint...yes! Are these equally acceptable
or natural because "that's the way I am" or "that's the
way I was born?" Another hint = uhhh NO! Tendencies or attractions are
not sins (or crimes) . Homosexual tendencies may exist just as attraction to
underage girls or one specific race or wanting multiple partners may exist but
all BEHAVIORS are NOT equally acceptable in the eyes of the law, society or the
Lord. The root word of discipline is disciple...."Disciple" refers to a
"learned" behavior from a source which you accept. embrace,owe
allegiance, obedience and commitment. Love the sinner? Sure...but not love and
accept the sin...in SELF or others!
It's sad to see so many comments with regards to this video being an
endorsement by the church of their lowering of standards, etc.The
video was put together, edited and released by the church, and careful viewers
will recognize that there is NOT an inconsistency with church membership,
doctrine and beliefs.At 5:08 Xian's mother says: "That was
tough - realizing that he [Xian] was stepping away from the church."5:18 Xian's father says: "To see my son, who is in a
relationship with another um, man, okay, that's not really in harmony with
what we're taught."5:25 Xian's mother: "I should
be curled up in a ball, crying, and thinking 'What's happened to my
eternal family?'. Once...you let it go...like, I'm laying this on the
Savior's feet. It...It does...it just feels like this big load...is
lifted. And you do have a peace."Again, I don't see an
inconsistency between the gospel, church membership and beliefs. I
think this is a VERY good video about the challenges individuals and families
face in the scope of a greater plan for all of us, with constraints that come
with church membership and gospel teachings.My heart was touched by
the faith and courage of this family.
1hemlock, you wrote, "It is a choice whether to have sexual relations
outside the bounds of marriage between a man and a woman. Tens of thousands, if
not more, heterosexual men and women are able to 'conrol' themselves
and live active Church lives knowing that God will work things out. They are
able to do it. Anyone can do it."It is not a choice to be born
with a disposition and sexual attraction to one's own sex. You and the
Church would have these human beings suffer, without any opportunity for sexual
expression with others, even within the bonds of a legal marriage between two
men or two women who are only sexually attracted to their own sex.You and the Church condemn married gay couples as "apostate," if they
desire to remain members of the Church. This is cruel and unusual, to treat
other human beings this way.
Spoiler alert... Being Mormon is a choice... Being Gay is a destiny. Now back
to your regular programming.
We need to be forgiving regardless of gender persuasion and love all men and
women as God intended. I'm not speaking sexually now. However, we are
commanded to remain chaste. That rule applies regardless of whether we are
heterosexual of homosexual. We can generate all manner of man made ideas but
chastity is a law of God, period.
Why is this particular behavior so much on the increase? Especially at this
place and time?
The biggest message I got from this was that they were going to keep loving him
and opening their home and heart to him. They will never give up hope. They
know Heavenly Father loves him and if they block him out it won't do
anything except push him farther away. Some people are actually born with
this difference and that doesn't make it right for them to act on it, but I
also will never judge them, that's for God to do. I have no idea of the
struggle they go through every day. I can't even imagine. We can accept
that some people genuinely experience these feelings and still stand fast in the
belief that Acting on them is not going to lead them closer to Christ.
Glad to see that DN is reporting on stories like this. We can only hope and
pray this young man will allow himself to have a normal relationship with
someone who he loves. Anything less would be tragic.
I initially thought this was going to be another self-congratulatory 'my
son is gay and I still love him' video, but to my surprise, it goes beyond
that. The fact is that there are many who grew up firmly convinced that the LDS
Church is true, but came into conflict with that conviction as they realized
that they were gay. Many have decided to live celebate lives, as
Church leaders have counseled, and previous videos have told their stories. But
others, myself included, have decided to separate ourselves from the Church
because of our desire to build loving, supportive relationships with another
individual of the same sex. This is never an easy decision, and some say
it's simply giving in to lust. In reality, my decision to seek a
relationship has about as much to do with sex as any individual's decision
to marry. I do not relish the prospect of facing my life's challenges
without someone so close to me that I cannot share everything with him. My family struggles with this. What has become of their eternal family?
As in the video, my family's answers aren't clear yet.
Homosexuality is definitely a tough subject for Mormons. While I have many
thoughts concerning homosexuality, here is the basis of what I think and
believe. 1- love the sinner, not the sin. I think Xians parents are doing
whats right, by loving him. they don't necessarily have to like
homosexuality, but they still love him, and I think that's the message that
the church is trying to portray. Love everybody. 2-the fullness of the
gospel was restored through Joseph Smith. In the old testament, there were
prophets who practiced polygamy, so for the fullness of the gospel to be
restored, polygamy must be practiced, and it was! Homosexuality, however, was
not practiced, in fact a whole city was destroyed because of it. therefore there
isn't any modern day revelation that homosexuality can be practiced. 3- the Proclamation to the World talks about families, and it specifically
states the marriage be between a man and a women. 4-Whether people have
the choice to be gay or whether they are born gay, they all have the same option
to act on it, I know some people who have same-sex attraction, but they
don't act on it. Anyways, those are my thoughts!
@Smokin' Joe"(If the entire world embraced universally a
homosexual lifestyle, the human family would be extinct in a few generations and
advocates for the moral equation of homosexuality with heterosexuality could
not, on their moral premises, condemn that result). "Well
considering that the thing being embraced is people being the sexual orientation
they are, whether that's straight, gay, or bi, everyone being homosexual
would actually be contrary to the vision promoted. So there actually isn't
a reason for people like me who equate homosexuality with heterosexuality to be
homosexual since that's not something I am. Considering that the majority
of people are heterosexual then there's no concern about extinction. "it is wrong to assume merely that because some have homosexual
tendencies that there is no moral difference between life and death"You're the one making up this random transitive idea. It's
certainly not something people who equate heterosexuality and homosexuality are
I don't understand what all the confusion is. This video teaches us that we
need to love all of God's children regardless of their choices or
orientations. It doesn't set any ground breaking church policy or require
us to do anything that we weren't supposed to do in the first place. It
demonstrates what one family did to reconcile themselves with the situation they
had to deal with. As far as whether or not God will bless any or all
of them, let Him figure out who He will bless. They're His blessings, not
ours. It's not our job to figure it out for Him. While we may have
fundamental differences in our personal philosophies, we are still required by
He who made us all to respect each other in those differences and love one
another despite those same differences. It's no real biggie.
@Linda Bilington:"But every gay LDS person I know said they
prayed to change and were told by God that they were fine, just the way they
were. They believe that Heavenly Father wants them to marry another gay person
and grow a family through alternate insemination, adoption, or surrogacy -- just
like straight, non-fertile couples do."Ms. Bilington: You are on
these boards on a regular basis, as a remote commenter (from out of state). It
is apparent that you are here pursuant to an agenda to promote, via boards such
as this one, a radical, liberal/"progressive" agenda. Today,
you are purposely endeavoring to lead people to believe that God Himself
endorses the homosexual lifestyle. I know it is not true.God is a liberator, by the merits of Christ's voluntary sacrifice on the
Cross. This does not mean a total removal of an inclination of one kind or
another, necessarily. But through faith in Christ, as prescribed in Scripture --
not faith misdirected, as a result of subtle, false doctrines, mingled with
Scripture -- neither homosexuals nor heterosexuals need be ENSLAVED by such
inclinations. There’s the distinction.
@Burnham"It is hard I know but at some point in one's life this
is a decision. "So that was what, when I was a prepubescent boy?
'cause the first thing I can remember that got a "man reaction"
from me? Was an ancient Greek vase of Olympic athletes (that is, all nude).
For years afterwards I tried, I really *tried*, to be straight. It didn't
work. Nothing could get a fraction of that "man reaction" that I got
from poorly illustrated naked men on a 2000 year old vase.So if I
made a "choice", it wasn't a conscious one, and it happened before
I was in any condition to make an informed one.And it's not
like society hasn't given gay folk every reason to choose to be straight.
I mean, you guys have tried out-right outlawing being gay (sodomy laws), making
it illegal for us to talk about gay stuff (censorship and speech bans), banning
us from work (bans on federal employment, teaching, military), banning us from
building families (marriage laws, adoption bans)... do you really think
cocktails and sodomy are so great we'd choose all that if we had a choice?
And not just today, but in every era all throughout the world for all of
"There are no homosexual members of the Church. We are not defined by sexual
attraction. We are not defined by sexual behavior."Funny, the
"it's our First Amendment right to discriminate against gay people"
never makes that distinction. It always stops and starts at whether or not
someone is *perceived* as gay, regardless of their sex life.That is
to say... when people are discriminating against gay people, they rarely, if
ever, know a thing about the person's sex life. So pretending that
it's the "sexual behavior", and not the "identity"
that's the problem? Isn't honest.
As much as one may desire and try, one can not speak reason or love to bigotry,
prejudice, religious indoctrination, or arrogant egotism. Some people just must
find a way and reason to put others down and step on them, I guess it makes them
I applaud Xian and his family for their actions in working to understand and
improve their relationships and communication. I wish them all the best and hope
they find happiness, whether or not it ruffles the feathers of others. No one on
this world is perfect and we should be very cautious of sitting in judgment on
anyone, especially someone we know little or nothing about or their
circumstances. Regardless of how me might perceive another as sinful, God is the
ultimate judge and will hold US accountable for our lack of love, kindness and
compassion toward our fellow man, regardless of his supposed flaws.
Burnham writes, "My nephew told me that he was not born this way
but over time became gay. It is hard I know but at some point in one's life
this is a decision. "I suspect what your nephew told you was
that over time he realized that he was gay. That's not the same as
"becoming" gay, let alone deciding anything. But tell me, since you say
you know that this is a decision, how old were you when you decided to be
straight?"I firmly believe that this lifestyle is a decision and
not a demanded thing. I don't mean to offend but this is what I have
learned from more than one homosexual who has been totally honest about his
life. "I have no idea what anybody told you. Personally,
I've never met a gay or bisexual person who told me that they
"decided" to be that way. But it sounds like you are saying that gay
people who agree with you about the "deciding" are being "totally
honest" and those who say it wasn't a decision, it was a
realization--are not. Please think about that for a minute. That
is an incredibly insulting thing to say.
You always love your children, no matter what! But, lets be clear here. My
nephew told me that he was not born this way but over time became gay. It is
hard I know but at some point in one's life this is a decision. Everyone
at one time or another has difficulty with their sexuality and young people
quite readily admit to homosexuality before understanding that this occurs. I
don't know this young man but I firmly believe that this lifestyle is a
decision and not a demanded thing. I don't mean to offend but this is what
I have learned from more than one homosexual who has been totally honest about
his life. For what it's worth!
@The Caravan Moves On - Enid, OK"I am still not convinced that
homosexuality is not a choice. "How can you even state this? I
don't know about you, but I could never choose to be homosexual in a
million years. Could you? I was definitely born being attracted to the opposite
sex. It was not simply taught to me.
I was touched by this video. I am a true blue through and through died in the
wool active member of the LDS faith - a temple worker and, return missionary,
mother of 4, grandmother of 5 and a staunch supporter and defender of the
Proclamation on the Family. HOWEVER - we do not understand everything. We do
not understand how or why this happens. We do not understand "gender
disorientation" as Elder Oaks once referred to it. There is no doubt in my
mind that the Plan of Salvation does not include same-sex couples but for right
now - it does include love and kindness, respect, and allowance for individual
choices. DI's choice to produce this video does not in anyway retract the
Church's position on the principal of eternal families -- it does say
something about our need to stop contempt, hatred, "mean jokes" and
disparagement of others. There is no place in the Church for that and we need
to clean our own house first.
All intolerant criticism aside, the church-sanctioned video is a huge step in
the direction the church should be going. Critics may want to stress other
aspects of the Gospel, but love and family are like unto the greatest
commandment, which is to love God. As a lifelong Mormon, I have never understood
why the church that follows these principles would hang so much on a
scripturally dubious opposition to gay marriage rather than sticking to
preference for the scripturally sound opposition to promiscuity for those
attracted to either sex. Clearly, marriage or total abstinence are the only
antidotes to promiscuity, and Mormons have never espoused abstinance. To put it
in language familiar to Mormons. God prefers marriage to living in sin. So
should Mormons for their gay children. Also never say never to any change in
God's law. The end of polygamy and the priesthood ban on blacks, every
revelation, and the entire New Testament are ample evidence of that. To say
"never" is to deny modern revelation.
"I don't usual count off the cuff comments by the prophets as
revelation, but a signed document by the first presidency? If that's not
revelation, nothing is."I never understood why one would have to
guess. Why don't the church leaders clarify exactly what is revelation
from above and what is not?Is it possible that the ambiguity is
gives room for error?
When someone says they are now "openly gay" it simply means they are
acknowledging publicly they are gay. It does not define how they are moving
forward--whether they will be pursing relationships, getting married, living
celibate lives or whatever. I don't think there is any
confusion created with this video. I think it is very clear that LDSparents can/should love their gay children and not exclude them from the
family. "Love the sinner, because we are all sinners."
It has been said that the human family comes to sight as a great river flowing
through time. But that river is constituted and reconstituted in and by the
generative distinction between male and female---by the sexual friendship
between a man and a woman. If the generative distinction between male and
female is arbitrary (a mere matter of personal preference) then the existence of
humanity is, likewise, a mere matter of preference. On the premises of the
homosexual rights movement then, there is no objective reason for preferring
life to death---for preferring the ongoing unfolding of human history to mass
suicide. (If the entire world embraced universally a homosexual lifestyle, the
human family would be extinct in a few generations and advocates for the moral
equation of homosexuality with heterosexuality could not, on their moral
premises, condemn that result). It is right to have compassion for
homosexuals (as it is for any person suffering a harmful malady) but it is wrong
to assume merely that because some have homosexual tendencies that there is no
moral difference between life and death---between heterosexual eros and
I really feel sorry for those on this thread condemning not only Xian, but also
his family.I don't care what you may personally believe to be
true, whatever the shortcomings of your understanding. However, the blind faith
put into obscure passages of holy text lead me to understand that your faith is
more about fear than love. And my understandings of the greatest good of all is
one of love of one's self and one's neighbor ( and some of us throw in
God as well, some don't).This family loves and understands one
another. They have evolved to a higher plain. Casting stones is no way to
conduct yourselves. And blind faith is not faith indeed.
There's nothing wrong with the family featured in the video. They've
handled things as best they could, it seems. I respect their willingness to
tell their story.However, @Overdubbed in San Diego expressed my
thoughts exactly (around 10:30 a.m. ). And the conflict and confusion in this
string of commentary is evidence that s/he is right.I hope producers
and writers at the Mormon Channel and those in authority who approve their work
will do better by famlies like this one, who turn their stories over to them.
Read these comments and consider more carefully before releasing a
predictably-divisive product. The faces on camera pay the highest price for our
lack of clear messaging.
@nanjanIt's unfortunate if your son is indeed being
"threatened" however when you spread hateful and dangerious lies
equating gay people with "pornographic, cyberspace, predatory, sex-addicted,
narcissistic, phony, dead-end mindset and lifestyle" People tend to get a
JSB asks, "What do the parents do if their son introduces his
"husband" to them?"I'd expect him to introduce his
beloved to his family long before the wedding. But either way, the answer is,
"We're so glad to meet you. Xian has told us so much about
you".And if he and Xian are married, he is Xian's husband.
Two comments: 1 - The LDS church has "never" formally/officially said
whether having homosexual desires is genetic ("nature") or learned
behavior ("nurture") and anyone who is claiming the Mormon leadership is
saying homosexuality is absolutely genetically caused is wrong. They simply have
not said that. 2 - Those who are yearning for the day when the LDS prophet and
apostles say that homosexual behavior is not sinful are wasting their time. That
statement will never happen. No, never.
1) Comments confusion: Apostasy: Outward rebellion against the Prophet,
Authority, leaders, etc. People sin, get excommunicated, however some simply
admit they, due to x,y,z but without faulting the church can't meet a
requirement. (excommunication, part of repentance and we aren't supposed to
hate the sinner just the specific sin) isnt apostasy., Its recognition of
ongoing sin/conflict that causes excommunication nut apostasy? The young man in
"subject video" by definition" an apostate? Really? I watch Church
topical videos & look how "families deal with each other. This looked
opposite " my normal" so on that: 2) The Mother comment struck me dumb:
"effect on her eternal family". Wow I pray, have met with leaders
seeking assurance if I remain sealed to my parents I wolnt endure one more
moment with a Sibling, its spouse and their posterity due to decades old
behavior excused as divine right. A quick email, Christmas visit, and open non
confrontational discussion, without physical harm, financial theft, and details
unpublishable here likely. He didn't kill. Not jail bound. Didn't
spend your savings. Count your blessings.
I am still not convinced that homosexuality is not a choice. There is a ton of
"learning" that occurs via "nurturing" (referring to the nature
vs. nurture arguments) and that is not discussed at all in this article. Also,
the older I get the more I can see there is a vast difference between
"seeing what kinds of actions are possible" and actually
wanting/desiring to do something. Just a hunch but I think a certain group of
people (especially those with perfectionistic tendencies) get confused with that
and don't see the difference.
I can't download the video so I don't know if this was covered. What
do the parents do if their son introduces his "husband" to them?
Standing for Truth posted:=But he loves us enough to ask us to
repent and experience the mighty change of=heart, not give in to the
doctrines of the world. When he comes to the point=where he would like
help, have him a good therapist who helps people desiring=to change. He
can be helped to leave his homosexual desires and behaviors=behind.Actually, the LDS Church has come out and pretty clearly said that most
gays probably CAN'T change their sexual orientation, and therefore have
indicated that it makes no sense to try. Why can't people just take that at
face value, and just accept gays, lesbians, and bisexuals as valid people who
don't need to change?On the other hand, having sex with someone
of one's own gender is another thing entirely. Currently the Church has
declared that sin, even if one is legally married to that someone. I have
accepted that, though for the record if the Church ever accepts same-sex
marriage nobody would be happier of such a thing than myself.
What a wonderful young man Xian is! Thank you, Mormonchannel, for posting this.
This really warms my heart. May God bless him and his family! Be strong and
Sadly, when this family, and the gay son, read all these posts, they will
realize that they are still NOT safe, emotionally, spiritually, and physically,
from the retribution, criticism, as well as subtle and overt threats that are
expressed here. Notice the number of people who express that they would shame
and threaten their children? The vilification never stops, does it? People are
still deluded in their deep seated and willful misunderstandings about
others.There is nothing wrong with this young man. He is precisely who
God created him to be.
This is not a lifelong sentence for Xian. We all are tempted and called on by
Jesus to repent. These outside-of-God's-law feelings and desires can be
schooled and overcome left behind permanently. Jesus does love Xian, as he loves
us all. But he loves us enough to ask us to repent and experience the mighty
change of heart, not give in to the doctrines of the world. When he comes to the
point where he would like help, have him a good therapist who helps people
desiring to change. He can be helped to leave his homosexual desires and
I can't put my finger on it. No one thing about it. But this video bugs
me. I think, perhaps, it is trying to make some sort of statement
about families must love and support their members. But maybe that message is
drowning in lots of other included messages that seem to be promoting apostasy.
Its interesting how people change their perspective - and their rhetoric - when
they realize they could be talking about their own flesh and blood.
When these shallow pro-gay coming-out stories are told we never hear the dark
backstory. Parents and leaders should care that underneath what you see is a
pornographic, cyberspace, predatory, sex-addicted, narcissistic, phony, dead-end
mindset and lifestyle. Many years ago in his teens my child was involved in
homosexuality. The sinning was exciting, but he knew it was wrong and
eventually, with the right help, got himself out. His authentic heart-wrenching
story and Christ-centered beliefs are regularly recharacterized, dismissed, and
met with hateful resistance, even threats. Interesting that the world-- and the
church-- have zero love and acceptance and praise when it comes to stories like
@Hope, I'm going to guess that you knew you were straight from early
childhood. Am I right?I'm going to guess that you didn't
pray about this, and ask Heavenly Father if you were really straight, because
you saw no reason to question it. Am I right again?If so, I wonder
why you say that someone who states that she or he is gay--with the same
intensity that you have always known about you being straight--that they are
delusional, that they are not listening to God, that they are hearing voices
from Satan, that they are denying the truth that God is trying to tell them.
I would not dream of telling you what God wants you to do or think,
let alone do this and justify it by saying that I "know" that I am
right. Because I don't "know" any such thing.
I feel for all the mothers and fathers of gay children particularly those who
are "openly gay" (I guess meaning they are sexually active).While
they love their kids they know by being "openly gay" they are committing
sin and fall short all they could have.The kids won't get a
"pass" no matter how good they are otherwise. None of us will. God
bless those chaste singles (gay and heterosexual) that have enough faith and
resilience to do what's right and be patient. Momma' s love
won't save them.Only by the grace of God after ALL WE CAN DO.
It is a choice whether to have sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage
between a man and a woman. Tens of thousands, if not more, heterosexual men and
women are able to "conrol" themselves and live active Church lives
knowing that God will work things out. They are able to do it. Anyone can do
it.But so many profess to follow the teachings of the Church, except for
this one thing (the young rich man parable comes to mind).Strange paths
There is something important missing from this story. Divine love is
conditional, according to President Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the
Twelve Apostles. Divine blessings are conditional also, Nelson reported. Sinners must repent, according to the Church. Sin cannot be looked upon
with the least degree of allowance, according to the Church. Sin must be
abhorred, according to the Church. Parents are expected to teach
obedience. We can tolerate the differences of others, but “we cannot
tolerate their infractions of the laws of God,” according to President
Nelson. In other words, parents may love their children, but may not tolerate
their sins. The son in this story would be deemed an
"apostate" of the Church, if he tried to remain a member and married
@bachelors of science: "I'm not sure what message the LDS church is
trying to send to its members with this video"How about:-
Stop treating people badly because of who the love.- Stop throwing
kids on the street because they're gay - 40+% of kids on the street are
LGBT, most were forced out of the home by religious parents. - Stop
passing laws that hurt LGBT Americans who are the children of your neighbors...
or maybe your own child. - Stop trying to compel others to live your
choices. - Stop repeating propaganda about LGBT people and actually
find out who we are, as people. Read Acts 10: 9-16, focused
especially on verse 15: The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call
anything impure that God has made clean.”That isn't about
the bacon at breakfast, or shrimp. It is about your neighbor, including your
LGBT neighbors. 🏳️🌈
I explained that I had an answer for myself, but that the best option would be
to get your answer from God directly. This was taken as opinion and accusation
in error.If you have prayed with faith and humility, then it
wouldn't matter whether God's answer was "here's the
truth" or "wait 40 more years" or if he remained silent for decades
or if the answer was "don't worry about this, I want you to build a
boat instead".If even a fraction of faith was exercised by those
who suggest they long prayed without the answers they were looking for...
it's cause they were looking for answers they wanted rather than looking to
change themselves to fit the answers given. Basically, humility was nonexistent.
I once told someone, roughly, "if you ask for my advise on how to paint,
don't resist what I tell you cause it's not what you want to
hear."If one prays with the will to follow the answer God will
give, then they would live obedient to the commandments and would see the same
love and truth and feel about the brethren, and feel the same spiritual
confirmation the rest of us receive. If they teach something else, they are not
This was really beautiful. What an amazing family!
The bottom line is, "we" ie church members and church leaders don't
have all the "answers." We don't even have all the
questions. So, we revert back to God's commandment to
"love one another" and "love your neighbor as yourself."
period. Only God knows why there exists variation in sexual attraction and
gender identity. Only God knows an individual's personal experience,
opportunities, hardships, desires--heart and soul. He will judge us all in the
end. Until then, walk alongside your neighbor and do good to him.
Leave the judging to God. If our LGBT brothers and sisters--married or
not--don't feel welcome within the walls of our churches, we've got a
lot of work to do.
@RanchI hear the sincerity in the challenges you've faced. It
is unfortunate that you feel alone in your struggles. We ALL have trials. My
life may seem a fantasy to you, because you don't know me, but because I
have gone through my own trial by fire, and have been able to overcome with
faith in my Savior, Jesus Christ's Atonement, I know what I have shared
with you IS true. As we put our temptations behind us, and don't quit
trying, we CAN become stronger, and it DOES become easier, until eventually we
lose the desire altogether. Our Heavenly Father will always love
us. As we continue to go to Him in prayer, He will continue to help us feel
that love. He loves us and wants us to have all that He has to offer us, if we
are willing to accept it.
@Christmas wrote, “I assume homosexuality is not what you wanted initially
or you would not have attempted to seek the Lord for change in the first
place.”The gay Mormons guys I know prayed for change because
they were told by their parents and / or their church that they were
unacceptable as they were. And they said the same thing that Ranch said--that
they realized that they were praying for the wrong thing--and then they prayed
to accept themselves as they were. I asked a missionary years ago
which way to go, when the message given by the Church clashed with the message
that I received in prayer; he said to follow the message from prayer. If
you’ve already decided what the “right” answer is,
you’re not going to hear what’s really being said.
@Common sense conservativeGenerally heterosexual and homosexual just
generally refer to attraction to the opposite or same gender, it doesn't
say anything about monogamy or polygamy. Monogamy and polygamy are the structure
of relationships that people are in so those words don't cover feelings.
Now polyamorous would be having romantic attractions to more than one person
which is kind of a step past thinking multiple people of the opposite gender are
attractive and there could be some grey area where someone in a monogamous
relationship could kinda be polyamorous and not act on it. @Christmas "Where's the open admission of mistakes from their
son and his need to change? "What's his mistake? The LDS
church doesn't consider being gay to be a sin so unless he's doing
stuff (which they do frown upon)... there's nothing he has to change as far
as they're concerned.
@Lone Eagle"A person is not "gay" until acting on the same sex
attraction."That's not true. Someone is heterosexual,
homosexual, or bisexual based on whether they have attractions to the opposite
gender, same gender, or both. Acting on it doesn't matter, after all the
church expects people to not do those things until marriage and you surely
wouldn't consider a guy and girl that are dating to not be heterosexual
while they're chaste.
@Illuminated said,“On the other hand, the family unit being
male and female has never changed since Adam and Eve.”Family
units have always consisted of women and their children. Sometimes the men
stuck around, sometimes not. Sometimes there was one man and multiple women.
Sometimes there was a wife and a (replaceable) concubine. There are, even
today, societies where one woman lives with multiple men. And
always, there have been women who lived together, and men who lived together.
Generally, they were publicly known known as “good friends”;
sometimes they claimed to be siblings or cousins. Sometimes the relationships
were openly gay. Sometimes children from previous relationships were part of
Ranch- " I prayed to be changed EVERY DAY for years. Everyday. Hope.
Everyday! No change occurred. Never. Not even a smidgen."There
is a difference between wanting to change versus wanting to overcome. People
can change something over night if they want to. But overcoming something that
is unwanted can sometimes take a lifetime. I assume homosexuality is not what
you wanted initially or you would not have attempted to seek the Lord for change
in the first place. Prayers are answered in the Lords time, not
ours. If someone chooses not to actively and earnestly seek the Lord to
overcome, then it is assumed you have given up and have chosen to accept the
choices you've made.
@BacchusOh but it is a revelation. D&C 1:38"whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the
same."I don't usual count off the cuff comments by the
prophets as revelation, but a signed document by the first presidency? If
that's not revelation, nothing is.
@ IlluminatedOops! Yours and my mistake. The Family: A Proclamation
to the World was redacted with Gordon B. Hinckley as President of the Church.
@ Hope & Faith give us strengthThank you for sharing your experience
and opinion. I hear you and respectfully disagree with your insinuation. My mind
and conscience is at peace. I love the Lord and feel his love and approval on
this respect every day of my life. @ Illuminated you wrote:"The Family: A Proclamation To the world is the most recent revelation on
homosexuality. President Monson, himself, signed his name to it. You've
never heard of that? I doubt it."My dear fellow Saint, I have
heard about it and read it a few times. Yes, It was signed by President Monson,
the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve. I failed to see your point.
The Family a Proclamation to the world. Should and is considered by the LDS
Church as the guiding document regarding Marriage and family. But it is not a
This video felt like an attempt to make us all feel warm and fuzzy about sin, or
dismiss it all together. There was reconciliation between the
parents and their son, but no reconciliation with Christ, no mention of
repentance, no mention of Christ's atonement.....nothing. "The fathers open admission of his mistakes, his recognition of the need
to change the way he looked at his son and the world" Everyone
makes mistakes, but why is this supposed "open admission of mistakes"
only focusing on the parents? Where's the open admission of mistakes
from their son and his need to change? Where's the recognition
of what scriptures say about sin and repentance?
Hope says:"Yes, I'm sure you've prayed. But prayer without
an open heart that's willing to be corrected, taught, welcoming to revision
and change (from God, not Satan) is another thing altogether."..."The
truth is absolutely available. The only question is ever whether we are willing
to listen."--- Prayer without an open heart. How do you know
that our prayers were not with an open heart? Perhaps you're the one who
needs to open your heart.I prayed to be changed EVERY DAY for years.
Every day, Hope. Every day! No change occurred. Never. Not even a
smidgen.Until the day I finally prayed for acceptance (i.e., I
"opened my heart welcoming revision and change") and guess what? At
that VERY MOMENT, Hope, ALL my guilt, despair, self loathing vanished. All of
it! I felt the most incredible sense of peace I'd ever felt in my life,
Hope. And that has not changed in over 30 years!Hope, you are the
one who needs to open yourself to change and revision, yes, the truth IS
available, Instead of posting with such hubris and arrogance, perhaps you are
the one who needs to listen!
@Bountiful Guy;Does it matter? You're asking LGBT people to
forsake everything in this (actual) life for some possible "eternal"
life that probably doesn't exist anyway.@breezeehills;Pure fantasy, start to finish.@Tucket;I'm in my
late 50's, most of my gay friends are too. You keep lying and think your
god loves you for it?@KevinSim;Sin is just a human
construct. A gay married to another gay IS being chaste as long as they're
monogamous!@illuminated;Bingo!!! It isn't true!
& ""...the sacred powers of procreation " are possible with
SCIENCE!@Baccus0902;It is policy, not
"revelation".@Hope;Being gay is NOT a
"temptation" any more than being straight is. I "govern myself"
to be a good person even if I love and have a relationship with someone of the
same gender. You were told not to judge and can't even refrain from that
I watched the recommended video link. I thought that it was interesting but it
left me confused. I was taught that homosexual behavior was a sin. That
homosexual behavior was just as serious as two heterosexuals committing adultery
which would lead to excommunication from The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints. I also understood that if a person, who was a homosexual
maintained a morally-chaste celebrate lifestyle, he could maintain his standing
in the Church. However, since the before-mentioned video is now on the Mormon
Channel, it appears that there is some confusion in the leadership ranks of the
Church on how to deal with homosexual members of the Church. Hopefully, the
leadership of the Church will receive divine revelation that will further
clarify LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their relationship to the Church. Right now
I understand that the same standard of morality applies to every member of the
LDS Church regardless of sexual orientation ; that is "Complete Chastity
before marriage and complete fidelity after marriage, and that marriage is ONLY
between a man and a woman in a monogamous relationship."
Baccus0902,I share the same mentality about this as illuminated
described. Though I would add a word of caution. I firmly believe the only real
way to address this is through prayer. Yes, I'm sure you've prayed.
But prayer without an open heart that's willing to be corrected, taught,
welcoming to revision and change (from God, not Satan) is another thing
altogether. The real question is what do we actually want to believe in? Do we
have hope that the church may be true, with all it's promised blessings and
divine potential? Do we want to feed that hope and accept changes within
ourselves to draw near to it and build off it?Thing is, I prayed
about it years ago when I wasn't sure, and trusted that the brethren
weren't wrong, as you said of them with the priesthood, but that they
probably knew more than I did about it. So I trusted them and figured an answer
would eventually come. As I studied the scriptures, it came. Since that day,
it's been as crystal clear, unconfused, unquestioned, and loving and
tolerant as it needed to be.The truth is absolutely available. The
only question is ever whether we are willing to listen.
@BacchusThe men who were authorized to hold the Priesthood has
changed many times throughout history. At first it was just Aaron and his
sons, then it passed to the tribe of Levi. When Christ came, he conferred it to
his apostles, then to the 70 and so forth. The Church allowing
blacks to have the Priesthood is not that remarkable when you take into account
the Bible. However, it's always been worthy males who have had it
conferred in a permanent basis.On the other hand, the family unit
being male and female has never changed since Adam and Eve. The
Family: A Proclamation To the world is the most recent revelation on
homosexuality. President Monson, himself, signed his name to it. You've
never heard of that? I doubt it."...the sacred powers of
procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as
husband and wife."
Bachelors of science posted:=I'm not sure what message the LDS
church is trying to send to its members with=this video:==That
it's ok to be gay?It IS okay to be gay. The Church has been
saying that for a while now. The Church hosts a website for gay members to talk
about their experiences. The Church just emphasizes that while it's
possible for the large numbers of single Latter-day Saints to be heterosexual
but chaste, it's also possible for gay and lesbian Latter-day Saints to be
homosexual but chaste.
I understand the Video--I do not understand how the parents, who should love
their son, can reconcile this situation with their hope for an eternal family.
That hope has been dashed, as long as their son remains an "active "
Homosexual. Which leads back to the situation regarding the Church's
position on active Homosexuals. If they marry, they are considered Apostatized
and are Excommunicated. If they are sexually active they, just like straight
people, are in violation of the law of Chastity. I doubt if the leaders of the
Church would see the beauty of this video. If they really approved this for
publication, then they are clueless as to what they should be doing in regards
to this issue. They cannot have everything end up OK. By design there must be a
right and a wrong. Period
I have been a member my entire life and have always been taught that
homosexuality is wrong. So video's like this are confusing to me. Was it
published by the church? Did President Monson approve it, or was it just done by
someone in the church video department? I sometimes feel like I don't
even know what we as a church believe anymore.
"There are no homosexual members of the Church. We are not defined by sexual
attraction. We are not defined by sexual behavior." Yet, the church spends a lot of time talking about sexual behavior.
I'm not sure what message the LDS church is trying to send to its members
with this video:That it's ok to be gay?
An attraction is simply a thought, an appeal, an enticing to desire something.
Satan may tempt you to desire something when you would be better off following
another enticing, that of the spirit.A man may desire:A
womanA different womanA manA childA teenagerA
siblingA cowA Porche you don't needA new Mac you
don't need/// 1 Corinthians 10:13: "There hath no
temptation taken you but such as is common to man..."I
don't care what entices someone. If your human, the fact is that all manner
of temptations will cross your mind at some point. Satan finds the ones you
linger on and pushes those as hard as he can. You're human, after all.The purpose of this life is to learn to govern ourselves. If we were to
do everything we see animals doing, we'd eat our young. We must choose not
to be the sum of our appetites. Natural temptation need not mean "obligated
to act on". Satan fools us into thinking we have no choice to act. This is
his lie./// "...but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to
be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way
to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
@ IlluminatedYou wrote:" If that's truly the way it is,
that the principle of the family, outlined in Doctrine and Covenants, is simply
"prejudices of men", then this Church isn't true. It would
imply that Joseph Smith and his successors got it all wrong."What a sad comment! The leaders of the church got it wrong for a
long time regarding the Priesthood. But they received the proper information and
was rectified. That is why we have and need revelation.We have
always known there are many, many things we don't know or do not
understand. That lack of knowledge or lack or understanding about certain issues
should not be an obstacle for the acceptance of those issues that you know and
understand.I love to read the scriptures and yet I have never
encountered a revelation regarding homosexuality. I accept that many leaders
have talked against it, including Moses and Paul. But I have never encountered a
revelation on the subject. If somebody has I would like to know about it.
It would appear that the debate over whether its okay to be gay will never end.
Sad.However, for this family and many others, the debate is over.
It is heart warming and heartening to see people look beyond the dogma of
religious prejudice. And you can be a "good" LDS member, Southern
Baptist or whatever and reject the demonization of their LGBT brothers, sisters,
aunts, uncles and friends. Even welcoming them into your earthly and spiritual
home.It may even be possible to reinterpret your most sacred beliefs
to incorporate this LGBT person's chosen family (they marry and adopt) into
the fellowship and eternal life as proscribed in holy texts. It only takes an
open heart and open mind as this wonderful family has done.Most
religions have evolved beliefs, some for two millennia. Change is hard for
many, but evolution is inevitable. It doesn't mean you reject core tenets.
It does mean to reject some of the lesser/failed ones that belong in the dust
heap.And I am not a believer, and I get this stuff.
@Bountiful Guy: "What dos the LGBT community believe is the condition of the
family in the life after this one?"The LGBT community is as
diverse as America
Actually, as diverse as the entire world. Personally, I
believe in reincarnation, and believe that each life is a learning
opportunity.@What in Tucket: "...gay men his life expectancy is
about 25-30 years less."That is a made up statistic that has
nothing to do with reality. Also, gay men and lesbians make up
between three and 5% of the population, transgender people are over .5%, and
bisexuals or another approximately 5%.
Thank you Deseret News for this beautiful article. I as many other LGBT believe
that the brethren will come to the realization by study, prayer, common sense ,
and/or revelation that Homosexuality is a valid variant as heterosexuality. I was serving my mission in 1978 when President Kimball and the First
Presidency announced the Priesthood what mix of wonderful feelings came by that
announcement. I am looking forward to that momentous time when the
LDS Church proclaims the new understanding received about human sexuality.
@Laura BilingtonIf that's truly the way it is, that the
principle of the family, outlined in Doctrine and Covenants, is simply
"prejudices of men", then this Church isn't true.The
eternal family is the bedrock principle of the LDS church. You can't throw
the baby out with the bath water and still claim it to be the true church. It
would imply that Joseph Smith and his successors got it all wrong.As
I have said many times before. You can't have it both ways. Either the
behavior is wrong, or the church is false.
@What in Tucket? wrote, "The incidence of homosexuality is about
1 and 1/4 percent. It is sad if a family member is gay because if he acts like
other gay men his life expectancy is about 25-30 years less. Why should we be
happy about that?"Tucket, your data is from the bad old days of
1978, when nobody knew how AIDS was being spread, and casual sex with multiple
partners was the norm. Someone like that, now, is an outlier. Gay men who
date responsibly with the goal of a lifetime commitment to one man have life
expectancies no different from straight men. The family member to
worry about is the middle aged one who is married and sneaks off to spend time
at a gay bar, or a public restroom known to be a hangout for men looking for
anonymous (and, all too frequently, unprotected) sex.
@Impartial 7 "There are no homosexual members of the Church. We
are not defined by sexual attraction. We are not defined by sexual
behavior." That is the true quote.
Foreverfaithful posted:=No need to proof Elder Bednar's
comment. Elder Packard also stated "It's A=Choice!!!!"Boyd Packer did say it was a choice. I heard the talk. But in saying
that he departed from his prepared talk that (presumably) passed corelation. The
LDS Church has been very clear in recent years that its official position is
that gays appear to not be gay by choice. They are born with their
homosexuality.Furthermore, Packer's logic that he used in his
talk didn't make sense. He pointed out (with some accuracy) that
homosexuality really messes up someone's life, so why would a loving Father
in Heaven create someone gay? I would point out that dying of cancer also really
messes up someone's life, so what did Neal Maxwell and Howard Hunter do to
choose their cancer? Maybe they smoked too many cigarettes?
Common sense conservative posted:=So brave sir robin -If a straight,
married man has attractions to other women,=but never acts on them, does
that make him a polygamist? If so, there's a whole=lot of them out
there. Our feelings and desires don't define us. Our actions=do.No, Sir Robin is right. Polygamist and gay are defined differently. A
polygamist is someone who has more than one spouse; a gay is someone who is
attracted to someone of the same gender. Polygamy is (currently) a sin; being
gay is not. Actually having sex with someone of the same gender (acting on the
same gender attraction) is a sin.
The incidence of homosexuality is about 1 and 1/4 percent. It is sad if a
family member is gay because if he acts like other gay men his life expectancy
is about 25-30 years less. Why should we be happy about that?
@Bountiful Guy asks, "What dos the LGBT community believe is the condition
of the family in the life after this one? Is there eternal marriage, family,
and procreation?"I will gently remind you that there is no
monolith called "The GLBT Community" any more than there is a group
called "The Straight Community". And I'm straight, so I'm
not a member of this [non-existent] LGBT group. But every gay LDS person I know
said they prayed to change and were told by God that they were fine, just the
way they were. Theybelieve that Heavenly Father wants them to marry
another gay person and grow a family through alternate insemination, adoption,
or surrogacy--just like straight, non-fertile couples do. If they
believe in an afterlife (not all do), they believe that they will be eternally
married to their gay spouses, no matter where the marriage took place. They have no desire to argue with the Brethren. They see the issue of
blacks only recently getting the priesthood to be an indication of the
prejudices of men rather than a change of heart on the part of our Heavenly
We all have our trials by fire. What was Corianton's trial by fire? It
wasn't a sin for him to be attracted to the harlot Isabel. The sin was
that he acted upon it. Instead of embracing his sin, his loving father
recognized his misunderstanding of God's Plan of Redemption and he spent
much time explaining this to him. He loved him. He was concerned for his
eternal welfare. Our's is not to bend God's will to our
will, but instead, work to understand our part in His eternal plan. He has set
His standard. Knowing this standard, we can either accept or reject it. If we
know what His standard is, and want to do what is right in His eyes, through our
faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ we can actually pray for our desire to
reflect His will for us. Our hearts can literally change. We will no longer
have the desire to live the sin. I have had my own burdens to bear,
and therefore I know, not simply believe, this is true. Our will can literally
be changed to reflect God's will for us. Because of the difficult trial
I've had to face and overcome, I will never unfairly judge another. It is
hard. Life is hard, but life isn't supposed to be easy or we would never
I mean no disrespect by these questions. What dos the LGBT community believe is
the condition of the family in the life after this one?Is there
eternal marriage, family, and procreation?
Bednar likened same-sex attraction to a physical challenge, like being
“born with a body that is not fully functional,” but noted that
“simply being attracted to someone of the same gender is not a
sin.”No matter how you try to fix it, it is not a very
accepting view of some of God's children.
So brave sir robin -If a straight, married man has attractions to other women,
but never acts on them, does that make him a polygamist? If so, there's a
whole lot of them out there. Our feelings and desires don't define us. Our
@Lone Eagle;There is nothing wrong with living the way you were
created. A person is "gay" whether or not they "act on it".
Despite what pop culture tells us, it is possible to love someone but disagree
with their lifestyle. It doesn't make us "haters" or homophobic.
@Lone Eagle"Acting on same sex attraction is always a choice. A
person is not "gay" until acting on the same sex attraction."That's incorrect. People have a preference even when they're
not acting on it. By extension, what you're saying is that "a person is
not straight until acting on the opposite gender attraction", which is
completely false. I've known I was straight since I was old enough to have
romantic feelings, even though I wasn't acting on them. Your gay brothers
and sisters are exactly the same.
Kudos again to the D-News for reporting a difficult, but heartening story.It's remarkable how far understandings have come on this issue.
Just a few years ago an LDS Apostle stated very clearly that God would never
create somebody who is gay. This young brother, Xian McIntosh,
shreds that mentality by responding to his father, "why would anyone choose
this?" If Xian was my kid, I would be proud of him.We've
learned that in the short time gay marriage has become legal nationwide, that
teen suicides have dropped. This story is another positive point of progress.
One by one, little by little, hearts are being softened, viewpoints are becoming
more sympathetic. That, my friends, is a miracle, and a blessing,
occurring before our eyes.
Acting on same sex attraction is always a choice. A person is not "gay"
until acting on the same sex attraction.
The Church can't have it both ways. It's been written from the
beginning and all throughout Scripture that homosexual acts are a serious sin
and that we can't reach the highest degree of glory without a sealed
marriage between a man and a woman.Promoting these feelings as being
okay and normal isn't helping people get on the path which the prophets
have taught about.Everyone struggles with something; drug addiction,
pornography, anger, depression, and so on. We all have issues that try to pull
us off the Savior's strait and narrow path. But that doesn't mean we
advertise and promote those vices as acceptable. That will simply make it
harder to resist.I don't know why the Church is doing this.
You can't love God and Mammon at the same time. It never works that way.
In this era of fake news and things taken out of context, I too would ask
Impartia7 to provide a reference so that those interested could further explore
@Impartial7--The statement you've quoted is indeed taken out of context. If
you're interested in hearing the entire discussion, I think you'll
find it quite enlightening. It took place during a Q&A with Elder Bednar. If
you do a search for your quote and Elder Bednar's name, you'll find a
search result near the top from an article in LDSLiving Magazine. That article
contains video of his entire answer to a question from a member of the church
from Chile: “How can homosexual members of the Church live and remain
steadfast in the gospel?” That video can also be found on YouTube. His
answer is perhaps one of the most complete and clear explanations of the LDS
Church's doctrine regarding the family and marriage that I have ever heard.
Regardless of where you stand on the issue of same-sex marriage, after
listening, you will at least have a clear understanding of where the LDS Church
No need to proof Elder Bednar's comment. Elder Packard also stated
"It's A Choice!!!!"
Response is always choice.
I commend all three for being so open and honest with us about the reality of
their struggle to find a separate peace for each of them. The father's
open admission of his mistakes, his recognition of the need to change the way he
looked at his son and the world, and his demonstration of how he's working
to change was courageous. Bravo!
@Impartial7 - DRAPER, UT: Where did you get the state from David A. Bednar? It
sounds like it was taken out of context. Proof, please?
"Why would you choose this?" Scott Mackintosh asked his son, who looked
at his father and "chuckled" before responding, "Dad, I didn't
choose this. Why would anyone choose this?"Indeed, so I ask
Mormons members once again. Would a perfect God create people attracted to only
their same sex, and then tell them, if they ever act on it, then don't
repent will be punished for eternity by being sent to a lower kingdom? Please
don't quote anything that a fallible man wrote in your answer!
"There are no homosexual members of the church" David A. Bednar