Dick Harmon: BYU basketball faces plenty of challenges in weeks to come

Return To Article
Add a comment
  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    April 21, 2017 3:14 p.m.

    @USALover,

    Little Bro, don't appreciate the talking down to and the rudeness. So you are coach or something at BYU. Come on... The honor code is not the sole source of their trouble. They cannot even recruit the best LDS players.... You know a couple of Duke players....

  • Chummley MISSION VIEJO, CA
    April 21, 2017 12:09 a.m.

    How in the world is Rose getting a pass from everyone. Let's blame everyone but him seems to be the logic here. He created the culture and the so called status quo. It's his head that should be on the block.

    Ask the players. He is an absent coach. He does not know his players and does not engage with his players. He is the problem and not the players or the honor code or the staff.

  • My Rash is Red ,
    April 20, 2017 6:16 a.m.

    @Cougar_Trojan_Spurs_Fan - San Diego, CA
    April 19, 2017 9:58 a.m.

    "The difference between two players voluntarily transferring and the coach revoking the scholarships of three players is that the two who left on their own did not want to be there while the three who lost scholarships wanted to be there but had lost their standing due to poor play, etc. I think two try and compare these two situations as apples-to-apples is short sighted and inaccurate. Yes, it is alarming that anyone is leaving the team. But the circumstances are not the same."

    ------------
    Why do you assume their scholarships were revoked?

    "A source shared with me that guard Steven Beo, forward Jamal Aytes and guard Davin Guinn won’t be back next season."

    Maybe Guinn wants to go to law school. Beo may have asked to be let out to go somewhere for more playing time and Rose accommodated. Aytes has had 4 years to prove himself, yet always disappointed. Yet he was still given 4 years of free school.

    I have issues with Rose not holding his players accountable on the court but have no issues with this. A scholarship is a 1 year commitment with 3 or 4 option years.

  • Grumpy33 , 00
    April 20, 2017 5:19 a.m.

    Here is a novel idea. In the next few weeks, in fact, during the entire off season, why doesn't Rose and whoever else he calls a coach, work on actually trying to develop some specific skills with some of the players. Why not work Dastrup hard so he could serve as a double post with Mika? If he wants Haws to be a point man, why not help him develop the skills to be the best.

    We already know that off season practice works if a player wants it to. Look at the results Mika had when he decided to work on his FT shooting. The problem is I do not think Rose or anyone associated with the BYU coaching staff has the skills, knowledge, desire or willingness to help the players they recruit.

    Even Mika could benefit from someone who would help him with his footwork in the paint and around the basket. He could learn the finesse needed to become a great player. Look what happened to Kareem when he was a freshman. The NCAA banned the slam dunk. He was forced to change his game. He developed the sky hook and amazing footwork to become one of the greatest. Of course John Wooden knew how to coach.

  • water rocket Magna, UT
    April 19, 2017 11:42 p.m.

    I have read every comment on this thread and not one comment addressed the problem of recruiting great talent, only to see them go on missions. For a coach, this has to be very disruptive. Think about Seljaas. He was great as a freshman, but then he left on a mission and the coach had to integrate others, mostly RM's with two years of rust. On a football team, it isn't as noticeable, but with the limited number of players on a basket ball team, it is more difficult. I also think it may be disruptive for the players, as well.

    The honor code is not an issue like some think it is. All you need to do is read today's article on football players Hernandez and Pita. Pita and Hernandez were considered two of the top three tight ends in the nation. They were both drafted one spot from each other. Pita went on a mission, lived the honor code, was an eagle scout, and went to church. Hernandez went to bars, got into fights, did drugs, and committed murder. Today, Pita has a 5 year $32M contract, while Hernandez hanged himself in prison. The bb program struggles because of missions, not honor the code. Would I change it? Nope!

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2017 6:42 p.m.

    @talkischeap

    Not, perhaps. Without question. Nobody can really understand that recruiting for BYU is becoming increasingly and exponentially more difficult, unless they are put in the position of actually recruiting to BYU

    ------------

    Ummm....can you qualify that statement? Recruiting in football has been pretty consistent that past 10 yrs or so with a spike here and there (see 2009 recruiting class). We generally finish in the 60's in team rankings (on Scout.com) without too much variance.

    In Bball we actually have had improved recruiting classes in the last few years (post-Jimmer) and even had back to back top 40 recruiting classes with a total of 6 ESPN top 100 players on the roster this season. When has that EVER been the case at BYU before?

    There doesn't appear to be much evidence to support your statement. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2017 5:59 p.m.

    @Johninslc

    After coog fans bagged on Coach K for 2 transfers, I can't wait to see their outcry for Rose losing 3 and apparently forgetting how to coach.

    --------------

    You must be new around here or maybe you were away travelling in Antartica for the last 6 months? Have you not read any message boards on that subject??? Rose has been getting grilled since the loss to UVU for losing transfers and not having any experienced and reliable bench players.

    He's also been getting grilled since the UVU game for his inability and also his assistant coaches to hold current players accountable for playing selfish basketball and not giving effort on the defensive end of the floor.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2017 5:54 p.m.

    @ConradGurch

    Best case scenario for BYU is to drop down to Division II

    -------------

    Yes, ute fans such as yourself would love that. Then maybe the utes could finally be the most popular team in their own market.

    As for the absurd suggestion of dropping down to DII, how will that change anything. You'd still have the same issue regarding the Honor Code. Did you read a survey somewhere that said D1 athletes don't like the Honor Code but DII athletes do? LOL!

    I'm pretty sure people are still people and if D1 athletes overall don't want to live the Honor Code then BYU will run into the same issue with DII athletes.

    Dream On ute fan!

  • CougarCat Tucson, AZ
    April 19, 2017 4:44 p.m.

    To all those who've posted above about the problems of recruiting w/the Honor Code.... I've just got done reviewing my Scout.com rating of football recruiting classes. BYU is in the Top 25.

    Is the Honor Code a limiting factor in recruiting? Sure it is. But if BYU would just get the best LDS players to show up, which isn't always happening now, things would be instantly better, talent-wise.

    As for the coaching - well, that's a comment for another day.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    April 19, 2017 1:58 p.m.

    "Sorry folks but why would you want to come to BYU with the honor code in place?"

    I went to BYU with the Honor Code in place. And I would do so again.

    I spent some time in the UNLV dorms. I was dating a girl who was an RA there. The environment there compared to BYU? No comparison. I would never want to live in a situation like that. Even my girlfriend, who was not a member of the Church, was uncomfortable with a lot of the stuff that goes on in such places. I would give some details, but I doubt some of the stuff I saw would be appropriate for this forum.

    There are a lot of parents who are uncomfortable sending their kids to such places. Unfortunately, those parents are becoming less common as our society becomes more permissive. But BYU certainly should appeal to a ton of families out there as a safe place to send their kids to college, regardless of religious affiliation.

    No, it's not for everybody. But I wouldn't change it.

    I would, however, change the overzealous attitudes of some students who think it is their job to enforce the honor code.

  • Cougar_Trojan_Spurs_Fan San Diego, CA
    April 19, 2017 9:58 a.m.

    I think a few commenters are missing the point. The difference between two players voluntarily transferring and the coach revoking the scholarships of three players is that the two who left on their own did not want to be there while the three who lost scholarships wanted to be there but had lost their standing due to poor play, etc. I think two try and compare these two situations as apples-to-apples is short sighted and inaccurate. Yes, it is alarming that anyone is leaving the team. But the circumstances are not the same.

    And I do agree with all of the previous posters who said that defense needs to become a priority. Offense wins games but defense wins championships. Well, in the case of BYU this past season, our lack of offense and defense lost us games. If you can't score, you at least need to keep the other team from scoring.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 19, 2017 9:31 a.m.

    BYU fans need to lower their expectations. Sorry folks but why would you want to come to BYU with the honor code in place? BYU will not be able to recruit the talent they need to get to the next level in Football & Basketball. They will have some decent years here & there in both sports but the expectations need to come down! Best case scenario for BYU is to drop down to Division II

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2017 9:27 a.m.

    @eastern coug

    Listen, bro, if you don't think that BYU's honor code is a hindrance to open recruiting then nobody on this comment thread can help you understand it.

    It's real and it's BIG.

  • Carolina K RALEIGH, NC
    April 19, 2017 6:51 a.m.

    I don't know if I would go after the assistant at NCSU. Don't know if you watched any NC State games this past year. But there was not much defense going on!!

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    April 19, 2017 12:00 a.m.

    I've already commented on this thread, but I'd like to clarify: I think Haws & Emery are talented. Haws wasn't coached well, too often he wasn't corrected when he'd drive the lane, jump & throw the ball to a guy not open. I had no problem with his shot selection; he's a fine shooter. His threes started comeback v. Zags. Emery forced long shots sometimes when not open, but shot selection can be coached. Rose just doesn't do it well. Overall, I think Emery's solid; he's just short. LJ Rose--couldn't shoot, but started, & opponents got away w/ ignoring him. All players need same chance to develop confidence in their shots, but Rose doesn't identify which shots his players can hit, & help them develop confidence in a variety of shots. Our guards shoot from 22 ft. or from 5, but seldom in between. In this year's film you'll see 200 times when we passed up short pull-up jumpers in favor of driving down into heavy traffic. I was thrilled when Mika hit a 16-footer from the free throw line after Karnowski sagged off him & put us up by 2, & I hoped others would notice & do same, but season was almost over.
    Defensively, we get killed by drive & kickout 3s repeatedly. Coaching.

  • Grumpy33 , 00
    April 18, 2017 6:49 p.m.

    If we are going to believe that stuff about the honor code being a deterrent for recruiting good players, then BYU should apply for admission to the WAC for BB only. That way even with the LP2, not counting Mika because he is better than the LP2, BYU could win the championship every year, even with Rose coaching, and get an automatic bid to the show. Of course it would be a one and done bid, but look what it would do for Rose's resume.

    People already make a big deal over the 300+ wins he has generated at BYU, even though at least 40 % of those wins came against WAC or worse schools.

    Whoever coaches at BYU needs to recruit players who keep their poise. If the team gets down a few points, they don't go crazy and start throwing the ball up from midcourt. They need to stay in their game. I was going to say game plan, but I do not think they have one. But Mika, to keep poise, would need to stay within himself and keep control of his emotions. If Emery were playing the defense he can play, with the Y down a few points, he would need to continue to play tough defense instead of starting to throw the ball at a basket he cannot see. I saw him do that more than once last year.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    April 18, 2017 5:15 p.m.

    I love this thread. The usual cast of characters that bust on all things Utah; are busting on there own program. Classy, very classy indeed.

  • GD Syracuse, UT
    April 18, 2017 4:19 p.m.

    I hope you are joking about getting rid of Emery and keeping Guinn. Guinn tried hard and had one decent game in that 1-3-1 zone. The rest of the time he looked like a little kid running back and forth in a display of lack of knowledge on how to play the point man on that defense. I liked his effort but he certainly needs to go. I'm disappoint Beo is leaving. I think he could have been a good athlete. I wish he had shot more but seemed to lack confidence. I just hope Coach comes up with a point guard. Anyway hopefully things will get better. It isn't as bad as everyone seems to think in my opinion.

  • red.diehard Central, UT
    April 18, 2017 2:17 p.m.

    I am confused by the contradictory comments regarding Football and basketball.

    byu can recruit 80+ players for football and as we all know they are the best of the best. But the basketball team can't recruit a dozen?

    I wonder.....

  • Johnny Triumph Lahaina, HI
    April 18, 2017 1:57 p.m.

    @talkischeap - I listened to my uncle and his troubles recruiting the football secondary...back in the 1980s. It was tough then and has only gotten harder today to recruit top tier athletes to BYU.

  • Johnny Triumph Lahaina, HI
    April 18, 2017 1:52 p.m.

    Not sure what Quincy Lewis from Lone Peak brought to the bench, other than having coached everyone on the team in high school.

    Gotta get a defensive coach, BYU has, for too many years, just tried to run and gun and outscore everyone else.

  • GJ Greenwood, IN
    April 18, 2017 1:52 p.m.

    The men's volleyball team doesn't seem to have any problems recruiting foreign talent. Currently have players from Germany, Bulgaria, Finland and just signed a player out of Brazil. I don't think the honor code is as big a deal as people are making it.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 1:27 p.m.

    If Rose has received any message since the season ended, it is that he needs a cultural change on several fronts in his program.

    -------------------

    Steve Cleveland has affirmed this on BYU SN as well. According to him, Rose has finally reached a point he's not willing to tolerate the status quo. If that's true then imo saying goodbye to Nashif should only be the first move.

    When Rose's program was growing in the 2000's he had assistant coaches who were desired and sought out by other programs. Many went on to HC opportunities like Dave Rice, John Wardenburg and Mark Pope. Some assistants like Walter Roese eventually landed gigs with a Big 10 school. The thought that Nashif and Lacomb have been assistants since 2007 and haven't been named as a potential candidates or pursued by colleges for other jobs is pretty compelling.

    I'm waiting to see the other shoe drop before I believe 100% that Rose is ready for a culture change. I don't think kicking more bench players off the team is the answer (that was a problem with this years team). if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

    Change starts at the top.

  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    April 18, 2017 1:20 p.m.

    Oh I and don't buy into the non mormon recruiting excuses- we can't do it because nobody is worthy and wants to live the standards. We could not even get the best LDS players in the county in some cases in recent years. Remember? A couple of guys went to Duke. Just don't buy the argument all. Plenty of good kids that would want BYUs standards, but what do I know.

  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    April 18, 2017 1:16 p.m.

    Just a couple of thoughts. I think Mika will be back and the team has a chance to be great next year if they can get their defense ramped up and recruit a couple of athletic guards who can shut people down. Some reasons I am optimistic are: 1) Elijah Bryant and Yoeli Childs- two guys who showed huge upside. I am especially excited about them. 2) Rose seems to know that he needs to change things on the defensive side. 3) I still believe Emery has the talent on defense and offense to make a meaningful contribution- he needs to regain his freshman magic., 4) All LP3 can be less selfish after playing a year together in terms of the LP3. Personally I thought Mika was great and the best player on the team most of the time, but also had selfish streaks at times, which put the team back in certain games. I think he will be back. 5) I am excited about the new recruits out of high school. The 260 lb kid out of Idaho is a beast. We will be fine. The RMs will be back including Seljass. He can be good too. We will be good underneath next year. And I like Kaufusi- never given the chance. Super athletic compared the other centers in my opinion.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 1:08 p.m.

    The bottom line is that a culture change is needed at BYU. Early in Rose's tenure he coached good defensive teams, they were among the best in the MWC in holding opponents to low shooting pcts and holding scoring in the low 60's.

    They valued each possession, took care of the ball and worked each possession on offense to get a good, open shot and everybody helped on defense. They weren't amazing athletes but they played together and they were all committed on D.

    During the Jimmer years the culture changed to one of funneling the offense through one guy, forcing crazy shots, and allowing offensive stars to conserve energy on defense. We became wasteful with posessions and focused on outscoring teams instead of stopping them. That worked with a once-in-a-generation shooter like Jimmer paired with a defensive whiz for a backcourt mate (Jackson Emery). It hasn't worked since.

    Part of that culture change starts with the coaching staff. The speed of the leader determines the rate of the pack. We don't need "nice guy" assistant coaches letting the players get away with sloppy play, slacking on defense, selfish shot selection. There needs to be more accountability.

  • hi-ya Murray, UT
    April 18, 2017 12:52 p.m.

    Why is Beo leaving? As far as I can see there is no reason for him to leave?

  • MurrayMike Murray, UT
    April 18, 2017 12:34 p.m.

    First off, good article Dick.
    Secondly, you were too light on Coach Rose. He, and only he, is responsible for his players and other coaches. If either aren't doing their job, you aren't doing your job. I've posted all year Coach Rose is a nice guy, but nice guys finish last and he needs to go. When you lose to a 9 win Pepperdine team or San Diego it's time to step down. If you find players worthy to play on your team, don't stock up with DIII players then dump them after a year. That's bad form for a LDS school. Speaking of motivating, start making Dastrup push back from the dining room table and drop 30 pounds and get into playing shape.

  • High5 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 12:26 p.m.

    @ USAlover

    YES! YES! YES!

  • Shoe Auburn, King, WA
    April 18, 2017 12:06 p.m.

    Guinn has to go. Can hustle and play defense but he is a poor shooter. Lets find a shooter and teach him to play defense, if there is a teacher of such on the staff. Beo does not have the talent for improving this team in the future. Luke Worthington. Pull his scholarship and find someone with a talent around the basket because the talent we have around the basket will be gone.
    Cohesiveness was a big problem and working hard to get open with tight screens and crisp passing to the open man did not exist. I don't see a better year in 2017-18 either. If Rose coaxes Kuffauci back on the team we have big problems.

  • But seriously folks! Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 11:58 a.m.

    I agree with many who post here that recruiting at BYU is getting harder since so many do not even believe in an honor code and will not adhere to any code that requires living a clean life. Those are they types that will end up playing at other schools including the u.

    BYU needs to stay the course and maintain their standards rather than cave in to the pressures of big money and at ANY cost. We have seen this already happen at the u.

  • Husker1 Northern Utah County, UT
    April 18, 2017 11:56 a.m.

    The bottom line is that Dave Rose and his staff have to upgrade the talent levels for BYU to be more successful. Dominating recruiting in Utah County won't get the team to the NCAA tournament.

    Emery and Haws would be 6th or 7th men on most NCAA tournament teams. They'd be coming off the bench to attempt a few three pointers when needed. Relying on them as starters and "stars" shows how far BYU is below the heavyweights.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 11:52 a.m.

    Defense. The conversation starts and ends there.

    White guys with average/good quickness, speed and size need to be taught how to play defense against better athletes. It can be done and BYU has done it in the distant past. Schroyer was a good bring-up. Harmon.

    Nashiff was the scapegoat on a team that averaged 90 points. And in BYU fashion they say he left to pursue other interests. Whatever...

    Either way, the insider's word is that LP3 are infighting and the love-loss is for real. It's a shame because none of them is NBA quality and their delusions of grandeur created by an excellent HS experience has tainted their aspirations. They should do something special in college TOGETHER and make the required sacrifices to do it. Then all three should go play in Europe...or get hired at Vivint.

  • CougFaninTX Spring, TX
    April 18, 2017 11:13 a.m.

    I don't have facts to back this up, but it feels like the number of players BYU loses (either school choice or player choice) is much lower than average. But I am disappointed we're possibly losing Beo. He seemed like he could develop into a great player by his Jr / Sr year.

    Since Mika is not on any 1st round NBA draft boards, and only a couple of 2nd round draft boards, I hope he'll be back for at least one more year. Also, hoping that Bryant will get healthy and stay healthy. A starting line-up with Mika, Childs, Seljaas, Emery, Bryant should be able to make some noise. Haws can add spark off the bench, along with Dastrup and Shaw. Dastrup was a much better player in HS, and I'm assuming it was mission legs that impacted him. Expecting to see a big improvement from him next year.

    As for AC, has Dave Rice found anything yet, after UNLV?

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    April 18, 2017 11:11 a.m.

    Why do people keep bagging on the players from Lone Peak? How will they all turn out? I think we've seen the strengths and weaknesses this year however all 3 were top 100 kids out of high school. Interestingly, Mika was the most lightly recruited of the three. I don't care where a kid is from. If he's a top 100 player, I want him on my team. Is it panning out like people expected? Nope. Payton Dastrup was also a top 100 recruit and he sure hasn't shown much. It's hard to project how a player will turn out. Who saw Jimmer as one of the best college scores of all time? Would any of us have picked Jimmer our of high school instead of Hawes, Mika, Dastrup or Emery? Not one of us. So the luke warm BYU fans who criticize BYU for recruiting top 100 players need to tone it down and think it through. If the criticism is directed toward the lack of development of those players, then you've got something I would love it if coach Rose yanked a kid as soon as he didn't give effort on the defensive end. It would cause him to think really hard while he is on the bench. That kind of lack of coaching needs to be questioned, not getting the best recruiting classes in the history of BYU basketball

  • CaliCougar American Fork, UT
    April 18, 2017 10:45 a.m.

    My two cents...

    This new hire for the AC position is critical for BYU and the program. Dave Rose turns 60 this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire in three years. The new AC needs to be someone who can take over the program seamlessly when this happens. That means he needs to be an active LDS church member with a solid track record in coaching. It'll be interesting to watch this play out.

  • blue & white Boise, ID
    April 18, 2017 10:42 a.m.

    Not recruiting foreign players is a big mistake. It's the coaches fault for not doing this. Coaches need to be accountable when players leave. Is it the coaches or players fault? Fans deserve to know and Steps taken to improve the team. Those players mentioned leaving should leave. They just don't have the talent for this level. Why were they ructited? What's left are good quality players and we need great talent additions. We need backups that are good as the starters .

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    April 18, 2017 10:24 a.m.

    Opinions are like bellybuttons.

    Everybody's got one.

    😁

  • S_Grundy Denver, CO
    April 18, 2017 10:21 a.m.

    LOL - Where did this delusion begin that BYU has some storied basketball program that should be playing in the Final Four on a regular basis.

    Truth is BYU is what it has always been, an average basketball program. In the 70 + year history of the NCAA tournament, BYU has made 29 appearances and only had a first round win 9 times. They have only made it past the second round twice, and they have the distinction of most NCAA tournaments and never making a final four.

    Rose is probably the best this program can get. Fans should relax and just expect plenty of first round exits and a sweet sixteen every 30 years or so.

  • LoveTheKittens Central, UT
    April 18, 2017 10:15 a.m.

    I am outraged that there is not any outrage about turnover with our mens bball team! We attack Utah when they have players leave but are silent when the exodus is from our program. Multiple players and coaches leave....crickets.

    Hypocrites we are.

  • cy1951 Arlington, VA
    April 18, 2017 9:43 a.m.

    Nicely done, Dick. By the comments, you know you hit this one on the head. I was impressed by the knowledgeable comments of "Talkischeap" -- a BYU coach's wife. I think she is absolutely right. That is why when BYU gets some really talented LDS kids, and a couple skilled non-LDS who are willing to come -- like they have now -- coaching becomes the difference maker. And Rose's staff was/is not up to the task. They are all "home-grown" without experience in other programs. That is fine if you're home grown at Duke, UNC or Michigan State, where the HC has multiple Final Fours and championships. Pope was not home grown, played in a great national program, and learned how to coach from others, but he wanted to be a head coach -- good for him. Where was his replacement from? BYU. It takes a really good coach to get hotshot high-school scorers to sacrifice body and scoring to play defense. Emery tried this past year, as did Mika, but 2 guys playing D is not enough. Dick is right -- this is Rose's biggest challenge yet. Can he find a non-home-grown assistant coach to really help, and can he get these hotshots to play D and care more about team than self.

  • vasislos Holbrook, AZ
    April 18, 2017 9:28 a.m.

    Why do so many present their opinion as fact. We simply do not know and if someone on here is privy to inside information, then they are probably violating a trust. So my opinions:
    HAWS. Why the hate? I wonder if some commentators even watched games. Haws had a hard time adapting to college basketball but I never saw him come across as a ball hog. I do remember during the Gonzaga upset that at the end he was in control of the ball and he passed of every time.
    ROSE. I know coaching is a "what have you done for us lately?" profession but Rose has earned much more respect than so many malcontents give him.
    MIKA. I watched his play this year while evaluating whether he was good enough to leave for the NBA. I think he may develop the talent but is not yet there, particularly with quickness. He could develop in the NBA or overseas but I believe another year of polishing his game in college will be worth it.
    And lastly, I think next year will be good, perhaps great, and I am looking forward to it.
    GO COUGS!!

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 9:27 a.m.

    I'd pull Emery's scholarship first and keep Guinn.

    Haws' scholarship would also be in question.

    These 2 are not team players - never have been, never will be.

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 18, 2017 9:19 a.m.

    Watch any of BYU's games against Gonzaga or St. Mary's and count the number of passes once the offense crosses midcourt. I did one game, but it was so depressing that I quit the analysis. Three passes and a shot is taken. Drive down the lane and have no one to pass to. The offense is horrible. I can't believe they draw those plays up because they don't look planned. A few passes and launch a shot. And the players are not held accountable for such horrible play.

    BYU needs to somehow get coaches outside of the 'home schooled' atmosphere of BYU. With respect to players. How many of the final 16 teams have players that would be willing to sign on for the Honor Code and high academics? Even the top 32. Therein lies the 'elephant' in the room. The culture at BYU simply isn't one most elite players, outside of Utah, are willing to deal with. Mika was the exception. I'm sure he bolted after he saw what his future was at BYU and the basketball program.

  • goosehuntr Tooele, UT
    April 18, 2017 8:01 a.m.

    There were many times I asked out loud while watching games... Why are you there? What are you looking at? Where were you on help? Why are you giving such a cushion? Here goes the ball to the corner of death... can anyone guard the corner?

    Yes, those were all defensive questions repeated over and over throughout the season.

    Hoping for answers to those questions next year. Poor, poor defense most of the time.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 7:43 a.m.

    From where I sit, any new coaches BYU hires should have a proven track record of teaching disciplined defense. I also agree that BYU should try to recruit more in Europe, Australia, etc.

    BYU has a lot to offer to kids who want to be in a more conservative environment.

    In our time that means a smaller pool of potential players to recruit from, and it no doubt will require some new and creative approaches to pull it all together.

    I have said it before and I'll repeat it again - if Coach Rose doesn't show some better achievement with the team next year, his future beyond that should be carefully evaluated.

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    April 18, 2017 7:21 a.m.

    BYU fans sometimes need to take a chill pill. Look at the winning percentages of the BYU basketball coaches in the past 100 years. Guess who is on top? That would be Dave Rose. We could be like Texas and run out Coach Mack and they are still suffering. A top notch coach can have a bad year. St. Mary's and Gonzaga would be top notch teams this year in any league.

    This past season was frustrating. Losing Coach Pope for some reason I suspect hurt us. I guess we need to figure out if a shake up is warranted. Introspection is always good.

    Losing Mika would be rough next year, so the BYU fan in me hopes he doesn't get drafted. I don't think you can replace him. If he stays, BYU has a great shot at the NCAA's, if he goes it gets immensely harder.

    Rose had an awesome run there with Fredette and Carlson etc. Hopefully he can find those next stars. The bench seemed particarly weak this year.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    April 18, 2017 6:45 a.m.

    I guess no one in these comments remember that BYU beat Gonzaga and was one of only two teams who did so last season. I give them credit for that!

    However, that effort was not ever consistent. To me, that is a huge problem with this basketball team. I was always amazed and disappointed in watching them how one player would try to "save" the game and tried to make baskets every time the ball was in his hands. That selfish playing has to stop. The best teams work together for the best shot.

    Defense, defense, defense! That's who the next hire needs to be. Is Lewis doing his job? Nobody talks about him. Maybe, they need to do so!

  • Grumpy33 , 00
    April 18, 2017 5:58 a.m.

    The main thing with Haws starting every game is everyone on the team knows he is not the best player for the position. The main reason for the three named players transferring is probably because they did not get the playing time they deserved or they see no future for things to change at BYU as long as Daddy Haws is in control. Favoritism destroys moral, whether in the business world or in sports. Believe me, everyone on the BYU basketball team know who the better players are and they know Haws was not one of them.

  • Grumpy33 , 00
    April 18, 2017 5:07 a.m.

    Dave Rose is the next one who needs to pack his bags and hit the road. I wonder if he read the story about how Coach Few from Gonzaga gets the good players. He promotes his off season player development program. I bet Rose has never thought of such a thing let alone heard about it.

    I said many time before and it is worth repeating: If you keep on doing what you have been doing, you will keep on getting what you have been getting. If you do not like what you have been getting, you have to change what you have been doing. This is a message to Mr. Holmoe because Mr. Rose will not change.

    Some how Daddy Haws needs to be removed from the program and let the coaches decide what is best for the team.

    There are plenty of LDS athletes who are very good and who would rejoice in the honor code, but do not want to come to BYU because they see no NBA future past BYU.

    Rose needs to go and until he does, expect the same results from the past few years.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    April 17, 2017 11:58 p.m.

    Rose should have been given his walking papers at the end of the season and sent off to some cushy assignment. The problems start and end with him. BYU will have another lack luster season next year and then he'll be gone. About 2 years too late to effect any opportunity for the exceptional talent at BYU to have any success.

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    April 17, 2017 10:13 p.m.

    Not sure Heath Schroyer's a good hire. I doubt it. Hasn't been successful anywhere since leaving Y. Harmon doesn't mention that fact, & assumes that just because some BYU folks deemed him a defensive specialist, he's today an effective coach. Why?

    Harmon & others, why let Rose off the hook? Why suggest he needs better players, new asst. coaches, harder play from team, & to "change the culture", w/o saying that Rose needs to coach better? Nashif isn't leaving because he wants to; he wasn't given a choice. But remember, whenever BYU called timeout when the offense struggled, Nashif drew up the play. If Nashif wasn't doing well enough, why didn't Rose intervene, assume responsibility, and do it better? Rose approach: get Fredette types, & let 'em freelance. See, e.g., '15-16 w/ Fischer, Emery & Seljaas.

    And why do so many good players leave, & do better elsewhere? Because Rose doesn't see their strengths & develop them, as Saint Mary's does w/ equal or lesser talent. Beo-- case in point. If Rose told him to take every 15 ft. jumper he gets, instead of passing to Lone Peak guys, he could have helped more. He's not bad on D. Now Rose'll cut him.

  • Spanky1976 Las Vegas, NV
    April 17, 2017 9:58 p.m.

    Rose can hire a defensive coach but that won't help until he backs them up. Lewis was in charge of defense this year but he had no power as Rose let Haws and Emery do what they wanted. Haws was disappointing and needs an attitude change. Not enough team and too much individual play. I'm not surprised Mika wants out as he plays hard just for others to let him down. Rose must demand defense first. Hire whomever you want but it won't help until Lone Peak HD realizes they were only great in high school. Recruiting needs a massive overhaul especially when you look at the bench players. Nobody had a chance to impact

  • Rockyrd Gilbert, AZ
    April 17, 2017 9:50 p.m.

    I agree with Talkischeap. In an increasingly secular society, BYU is a tougher sell. It's nice to talk about Europe, South America or wonder why we don't have the Australian connection St. Mary's does, but it is just not that simple. It is easy to blame Dave Rose for having players leave the program, but in reality we should remember some players seek academic opportunities unavailable at the Y. Some, obviously, are unhappy with the lack of playing time. Some may have honor code troubles. Others may be detrimental to team chemistry. We may not want to think about these things, but it is the reality a basketball coach at BYU faces.

    I support our team. I always hope next year is better than last year, but I think Coach Rose and his team do an amazing job.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    April 17, 2017 9:43 p.m.

    If a scholarship is pulled, does the player still have to sit out a year before playing for his new school?

    If Guinn can play right away, his hustle as well as his aggressive approach would be a great fit for anyone looking for those two qualities...even if it was only for 1 year.

  • SIMPLICITY Denver, CO
    April 17, 2017 9:37 p.m.

    With Mika going pro, the cougs are in trouble...

  • Epearl Farmington, UT
    April 17, 2017 9:07 p.m.

    A honest and transparent article by Dick Harmon. The program has been in a tailspin the past few years and has hit rock bottom. I am not a fan of the Lone Peak pipeline with the exception of Eric Mika. Not convinced that hiring their high school coach Quincy Lewis was a good move for the program either. Coach Schoyer always said offensive wins games but defense wins championships. Still not over the UVU loss and many others where little defense was played and the will to compete was no where to be seen. Hoping the tough decisions will be made and the program can compete again!

  • FuzzyLogic VACAVILLE, CA
    April 17, 2017 9:08 p.m.

    I read somewhere that Guinn is graduating and has been accepted into the JD program. This is the same program that prohibits its students from participating in athletics, which is why we lost Jordan Chatman last year.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    April 17, 2017 8:31 p.m.

    I hope these players knew that their scholarships were not permanent. Beo was a last minute addition; Guinn was lightly regarded but earned his scholarship; Aytes never measured up .

    Still, I hate to see players have their scholarships pulled. Seems like BYU owes them and it is BYU fault for not recruiting well.

    In addition to all these changes, maybe coach Rose can show that he is willing to discipline his players and hold them accountable. That means bad shots, turnovers, and unnecessary rough play. Been a while since that occurred as well.

    I guess we will see that the next two months bring.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 8:29 p.m.

    If Rose has received any message since the season ended, it is that he needs a cultural change on several fronts in his program.

    -------------------

    That's Dick's best article in years. Well said and no sugar coating.

    I hope that Rose isn't finished shaking up his staff. Nashif was a much more experienced assistant than Lacomb (he never even played college bball). Yes, I get he's nice and the players like him, but the bulk of Lacomb's experience has all been with the same coach and team. What does he bring in the way of differing experiences, network of contacts, working in different systems w/different schemes, etc? What he knows is what he learned from Rose. It doesn't appear to add value to the coaching staff.

    There are a lot of options out there for hungry, eager assistant coaches who are driven to make a name for themselves and are very motivated to get results on the court more so than being friends with the players. The days of the "all ships rise with the tide" approach to elevating coaches needs to stop.

    I think the fact that Nashif is leaving without another coaching gig is compelling. We saw a similar problem when Doman left as OC in football.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    April 17, 2017 8:26 p.m.

    Looks like another reprint article from a few years ago.

    The more things change the more they stay the same.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 8:21 p.m.

    @Eastern CO Coug

    I also would like to see BYU recruit a couple of athletic guards that can stop the easy penetration. This was a killer last year against the likes of St. Mary's. Keep hope alive!

    -------------

    Actually, we just need guys with some heart and determination at guard willing to play defense. Go back and watch the WCC tourney loss to St Mary's and look at the effort Elijah Bryant gave in guarding a very gimpy-legged Joe Rahon to open the game (Rahon drove wherever he wanted and Bryant just let him) and then watch the difference when Guinn came in the game later in the 1st half and played him physically and diverted him away from the key with his body. Guinn isn't an amazing athlete, he just played with determination.

    Also to open that game we had Haws guarding Emmett Naar and they ran several high screens for Naar out top with a PF screening. Haws, in an effort to avoid any contact with the screener, dropped way too far below the screener to the point that Naar was taking wide open set shots from the top of the key adn drilled several 3's to open the game.

    Guys need to be willing to swap some sweat and be physical.

  • Drano USA, 00
    April 17, 2017 8:01 p.m.

    Thank you Mr. Harmon for a spot on analysis of the state of BYU Hoops. I think you do need to hire an individual such as Schroyer, but also who has a vast recruiting network , other than the network you have on your current staff. If he hires from within, it will be more of the same. Our guys, outside of Mika, Guinn and a couple others, didn't commit to defense. It would be great to have a bad cop coach who challenged our guys to actually stay in front of their man and not play the "ole, reach for the ball as the guy goes by you defense or the constant flying in the air as the opposing player pump fakes you because you're out of position." I would also like to see our recruiting be more than just the state of Utah. No offense, but Utah high school hoops doesn't produce a vast talent pool nor does it traditionally have the kind of talent which reaches the NBA. Nothing against Utah high school hoops, but that's the truth.

  • water rocket Magna, UT
    April 17, 2017 7:50 p.m.

    I think far too many use the honor code as an excuse for not recruiting and getting better players.

    I also believe that coach Rose is too loyal to former players in recruiting their sons, who do nothing but shoot the ball well (can anyone dare mention the Haws kids?). the 2015 - 2016 season featured a hustling, tough Emery. But after Haws returned from his mission, Emery's own numbers went down. Shooters like both the Haws kids are terrible team players, because they want to be the shooters.

    St Mary's and Gonzaga are successful because they play team ball, and everybody is a "shooter" when they get open easy shots. If you watch the Jazz, their scoring is very balanced, and any one of the players can be the high scorer on any given night. Not so with BYU. Other than Mika, who worked for his shots, there was one certain player who ALWAYS wanted to be the high scorer (guess who that was). Not only that, that that shooter didn't want to play defense, so he wouldn't get any fouls called on him.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 7:20 p.m.

    "Doing easy isn’t going to get a WCC title or an NCAA berth anytime soon."
    Here is a local sportswriter with reasonable expectations. Build the program. Set attainable goals. Predicting multiple final four appearances for a program has never seen one is highly unfair to Coach Rose. Expect better; don't demand miracles.

  • Michael Lloyd Jr. Spanish Fork, UT
    April 17, 2017 7:08 p.m.

    @ Dick Harmon

    Dick, this is possibly your best and certainly most appropriate column ever. Your comment "Not establishing personal ties to Croatia, Latvia, Spain, France, Australia and Brazil with worldwide LDS faith connections could be called malpractice" was spot on. All we fans want is for media and BYU leadership to call it like it truly is.....and some accountability so we can make constructive change. Thank you for writing a column that scholarships are pieces of treasure and have been misused. I was starting to think I could only rely on bloggers for intelligent comments. Or... to use your words I was wondering if "he's (meaning Dick) been in a comfort zone at the Deseret News the past few years."

  • az willy San Tan Valley, AZ
    April 17, 2017 7:03 p.m.

    3 open scholarships, watch out Mission Presidents

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    April 17, 2017 7:00 p.m.

    I'm afraid this article misses the elephant in the room.

    Nothing wrong with the author's suggestions but they're all either peripheral or long term.

    The single key to whether this team is markedly better next year than they were this year is how hard the players are willing to work, physically and mentally, to make that happen.

    No player or team that wants to excel needs a load voice to motivate them to give maximum effort on defense and to take it personally if beaten by their man.

    Great players have the humility and drive to spend the time necessary to turn their weaknesses into strengths.

    The fan frustration spoken of by the author is largely recognition that the players on the floor did not seemed dissatisfied with a level of effort that routinely allowed opposing players and teams to outperform their norms.

    The team, when motivated and engaged could play with the best. That same team needs to decide how often it will hold itself accountable to that level of motivation and engagement.

    I wish them the best.

  • Talkischeap Provo, UT
    April 17, 2017 6:38 p.m.

    Not, perhaps. Without question. Nobody can really understand that recruiting for BYU is becoming increasingly and exponentially more difficult, unless they are put in the position of actually recruiting to BYU. I am 100 % behind the honor code at BYU, but I am also married to a BYU coach, and I see and hear first-hand every week how nearly impossible it is to get anyone from the US, let alone overseas (primarily South America) to even come to BYU on a VISIT once you tell them about the honor code. If you are honest, which you better be, you mention the HIGHLY competitive academics (meaning, once you get past your generals it is ridiculously hard to get into the program you intended when you came here). You also talk about the honor code in the best terms you can, but essentially, no drinking, no coffee, no sex. 95% of the time the result of that talk is... no visit. If they would come for a visit, BYU has a chance, because the atmosphere is so unique. But, the fact is, there just aren't that many un-highly-recruited Division I quality athletes floating around. And there are even less, willing to step out of their own cultural box and take a chance on honor codes and LDS culture.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 17, 2017 6:10 p.m.

    After coog fans bagged on Coach K for 2 transfers, I can't wait to see their outcry for Rose losing 3 and apparently forgetting how to coach.

  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    April 17, 2017 5:56 p.m.

    Good article. I agree with many of the points. Hate to see Guin leave since he played good defense and showed great energy. A defensive oriented coach would be great. I also would like to see BYU recruit a couple of athletic guards that can stop the easy penetration. This was a killer last year against the likes of St. Mary's. Keep hope alive!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 17, 2017 5:49 p.m.

    Hmmm. The DNews (i.e., Brad Rock) and coog fans hit Coach K hard for two player transfers and losing continuity.

    But Head Cheerleader Harmon lets slip the coogs are losing three players and excuses it by saying Rose, who has apparently forgotten how to coach, can use the scholarships in recruiting.

    Yeah, love the continuity. Can't wait to hear the coog-fan spin on this one.