Defending the Faith: Festival, conference to offer insights on chiasmus, LDS scholarship

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  • sharrona layton, UT
    July 17, 2017 1:09 p.m.

    RE: Craig Clark . Mosiah 3 is a Modern Composition.

    "Beyond the problem the N.T. allusions pose for the theory of chiasmus in the Bo M, they also add another line of evidence for the modern composition of the Book of Mormon. We have seen that Mosiah 3 anachronistically addresses theological issues of great concern to nineteenth-century Protestants, presents a supposed prophecy of the coming of Jesus Christ in highly anachronistic fashion (including a misunderstanding of one element of the Gospel accounts popular in modern times), and that it does these things in clear verbal dependence on the N. T.in the K J V.
    Just as we showed a cumulative-case argument against Mosiah 3:18-19 being a chiasmus, what we now see also is a strong cumulative case for the modern composition of all of Mosiah 3. By far the simplest and most plausible explanation for this evidence is that Mosiah 3 is indeed a modern composition, not a translation of an ancient historical record.

    See the table that shows that there are at least 30 likely allusions to the N.T.in Mosiah 3 alone.. Mosiah 3 is a Modern Composition."

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 17, 2017 10:18 a.m.

    sharrona,
    " . . . . the passages are not genuine instances of chiasmus and that other features of the passages show that they are modern in origin."
    ____________________
    Those Book of Mormon passages are indeed chiasmus regardless of the dates of composition or the identity of authorship. Chiasmus, as we formally understand it is a post-modern effort that makes distinct literary techniques long practiced throughout history. It is discernable in the Book of Mormon, the Bible, the Quran, and literature by writers who had no name for what we today formally understand as literary style.

    A classic example is the expression “the first shall be last and the last shall be first”. We all know who said that. But Jesus himself had no comprehension of chiasmus as the formal style he used to great effect.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    July 15, 2017 12:24 p.m.

    Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon?
    One of the main types of evidence that Mormons currently claim supports the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as ancient Israelite scripture is chiasmus. Chiasmus is a type of parallelism in which the second half of the text parallels in reverse order the first half. Mormon scholars and apologists argue that there are impressive examples of chiasmus in the Book of Mormon that Joseph Smith could not have composed and certainly could not have dictated off the cuff.

    Several articles listed on this page address this argument by examining the most important passages of the Book of Mormon said to be written in chiasmus form. The articles demonstrate that the passages are not genuine instances of chiasmus and that other features of the passages show that they are modern in origin. There are additional resources on chiasmus also listed here.

    Mosiah 3:18-19—Ancient Chiasmus or Modern Composition? Why this often-cited example of an Israelite chiasmus in the Book of Mormon is really a modern text. “ Robert M. Bowman Jr.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    July 14, 2017 11:33 a.m.

    This is of much interest because chiasmus show us where to find the BOM people.

  • observator east of the snake river, ID
    July 14, 2017 9:51 a.m.

    Definition (from Merriam Webster): chiasmus--an inverted relationship between the syntactic elements of parallel phrases.

    "to stop too fearful, and too faint to go" is an example of chiasmus, not the definition.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 14, 2017 8:53 a.m.

    sportswriter,
    " . . . . since it is not commonly familiar, it would seem advisable--if not necessary--for a long column with the uncommon word [chiasmus] in the headline to include at least a sentence explaining or defining the word.
    ____________________
    Chiasmus itself is a relatively recent concept describing a rhetorical device that to some extent is imbedded in all cultures. It is not a religious concept. Book of Mormon apologists seize upon elements of chiasmus identified in the Book of Mormon, as though it proves something. Well, it certainly does. It proves that chiasmus is evident in Book of Mormon composition. Not exactly remarkable and anything but singular.

  • CMTM , 00
    July 14, 2017 8:12 a.m.

    RE: KGW. “ I hope they also bring in remnants of the tablets Moses “

    The Pearl of Great Price in comparison to the Bible: The first 6 chapters of Genesis(JST)or The Book of Moses contains 311 verses, While the Septuagint and Masoretic texts contain 184 verses. JST adds “ 127” verses which are not supported by the Septuagint and Masoretic texts or Dead Sea Scrolls But over 123 N.T. quotes support the existing O.T.

    @: Abraham 3:26 “kept not their *first estate= (Jude 1: 6 KJV,JST,). ).JS misunderstood the KJV translation. Context, E.g…, “….the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority,..(Jude 1: 6 NIV)or,… the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority…( Jude 1:6 NLT)

    Context,”… angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell…”) 2 Peter 2:4) actually Fallen angels(demons) Not pre mortality..

    Christians believe in creation Ex Nihlio E.g..,”Through faith we understand that the worlds=(time,G. aion) were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.(Heb 11:3).)

  • KGW Provo, UT
    July 13, 2017 11:47 p.m.

    Dear Censors. What is the timeframe to review and accept or reject a post. My comments are tame compared to Dan Peterson's detractors who disparage the church. Please let me know the status and disposition of my comments in rebuttal of the veracity of Chiasmus and other BOM topics.
    Thank You,
    KGW

  • KGW Provo, UT
    July 13, 2017 11:16 p.m.

    Re: MoleMan San Diego.
    Yea, I see your point. I hope they also bring in remnants of the tablets Moses
    acquired and some planks from Noah's Ark. Maybe partial remains of the Ark of the Covenant. Boy, if so, sign me up.
    It wasn't until the late 1980's that skeletal remains of lions mentioned in biblical times were found. Until then you either went on faith or like you it was wishful thinking and a quaint biblical account of encounters with mythical giant cats. Or, you might want to vacation in SE Mexico and Central America orviff the coast of Oman. Dozens of sites and ancient ruins coincide quite nicely with the description of life described in BOM times. The reality is that no amount of the type of "proof" you demand would
    convince you of the truth of the BOM.
    It's conversion comes with spiritual proofs that are readily accessible to those open to the prompting of the Lord's spirit. Otherwise you're incapable of recognizing spiritual matters that are available to anyone with a thirst for God's will in their lives.

  • Michael_M Scottsbluff, NE
    July 13, 2017 8:51 p.m.

    For those who don't think the Book of Mormon stories happened in Mesoamerica, the Heartlanders have their own conference. There is something for everyone who believes.

  • sportswriter Orem, UT
    July 13, 2017 5:59 p.m.

    I look forward to your weekly columns in the DesNews and vaguely remember the word chiasmus, but since it is not commonly familiar, it would seem advisable--if not necessary--for a long column with the uncommon word in the headline to include at least a sentence explaining or defining the word.

  • strom thurmond taylorsville, UT
    July 13, 2017 4:14 p.m.

    Hickory dikory dock

    the mouse ran up the clock

    the clock struck 1

    The mouse ran down

    Hickory dickory dock.

    Eureka, a chaiasmus!

  • MoreMan San Diego, CA
    July 13, 2017 3:50 p.m.

    Somnolent.... now that is the perfect new word for my vocabulary.

  • MoreMan San Diego, CA
    July 13, 2017 3:36 p.m.

    The dictionary defines chiasmus as the following. "to stop too fearful, and too faint to go" I interpret that as back away slowly.

  • MoreMan San Diego, CA
    July 13, 2017 12:29 p.m.

    I hope they have a Lamanite fossil or verified proof of a Laminite civilization in the Americas for me to examine... otherwise, it is simply wishful thinking. As verily, it has been this way for the last 180 years.