In our opinion: Donald Trump Jr. revelations instill faith in the Fourth Estate

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  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    July 17, 2017 12:28 p.m.

    Faith in the 4th estate

    Ha ha ha

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 17, 2017 8:32 a.m.

    "Bob K: "For you who keep repeating "the liberal press/media" -- THINK! They are all corporations competing for audience size, which is how their advertising revenue is set."

    .... and the political parties are much different? This is all about money. Has very little to do with policy, fact finding, or what ever. I am on the mailing list for both parties, and as soon as any issue pops up I get emails asking me to help donate to fight "fill-in-the-blank" issue. Most of this activity is about self preservation economically of either party.

    Likewise the NRA. Being a gun owner I get from them a weekly email telling me that my rights to gun ownership are in immediate danger and that I need to donate soon.

    Political parties - PACs - Non-Profits like the NRA - they are all just corporations reaching for wallet share of the American public.... and not much more.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 16, 2017 3:51 p.m.

    @ ERB -- Eagle Mountain, UT

    "My journalism classes in college Taught me to make sure that the readers could not tell what my opinion was."

    Of course, the opposite angle is the White House constantly spinning "fake news", "it's a hoax", "never met with the Russians", and other lies to help shape your opinions.

    They've done a good job of that, haven't they?

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2017 12:25 p.m.

    hate to burst your bubble DN; but after the press became a Vichy-esqe government shill for Obama, it will take some time to shed the "collaborator" moniker, regardless of anything Trump does or does not do

  • Bob K Davis, CA
    July 16, 2017 10:23 a.m.

    JoeCapitalist2
    .. your argumentds would be persuasive if you weren't spouting complete rubbish that you yourself could think about and see is nonsense

    Media corporations have stockholders just like any other Corporation. In today's world profit in the current quarter is what keeps the CEOs in their chairs. Thus if CNN for instance has a juicy story about Hillary killing kittens and they don't report it because they are Pinko liberal commies somebody else will report it and get all of the audience and the CNN Executives will be fired.

    What you're really talking about is Fox News which is owned by Rupert Murdoch and Australian who would like to control politics in the United States. If there was a story about Hillary petting a cat they would follow up with how many people want to have her arrested and put in jail for hurting the cat LOL
    ... Actually I write lol but it's really tragic for America.

    We had all those years of right-wing media saying Obama was from Kenya,
    Hillary's emails were the worst thing since Hitler and war hero John Kerry was a coward.

    As for Hillary - she's been out of office 4 years and would be in jail already if she had done something Criminal.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 16, 2017 9:39 a.m.

    @Tumbleweed - Centerville, UT
    July 15, 2017 11:03 p.m.

    Don't forget Hillary had some questionable dealings with the Russians before the election. I seen nothing wrong with that. That the media is making a big deal out of it makes me question the media's motives even more.

    ======

    It's not just this one instance that is troubling.

    It's layer upon layer, upon layer - time after time, after time -- a continuing known pattern of impropriety - that is troubling.

    Trump -
    refusing to release his taxes
    borrowing money from Russian banks
    selling properties to Russians
    dealing disproportionately with Russians investors
    the Miss Universe in Moscow
    the English MI6 dossier about hookers in a Moscow hotel
    BEGGING the Russians to hack
    admiring Putin
    NOT admitting the Russians hacked
    cabinet either recusing themselves or being fired for meeting with Russians
    staff repeated lying on Security Clearance forms about meetings with Russians
    blasting the entire Intelligence community of lying
    insisting this FAKE News and a 'witch hunt'
    6 months of denials, and then Jr admitting they DID meet the Russians

    Show some integrity,
    If this was Pres. Hillary Clinton - you'd never defend this! Never!

  • ERB Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 16, 2017 8:34 a.m.

    No it does not. It only proves that they are trying to bring down the Trump administration anyway possible. Obama did everything to destroy this country and they thought he was the best president ever. I'm not a Trump fan but I'm sick of the press. Even some of our local news stories are pathetic in their attempts to attack Trump. It would be wonderful if the news was just reported as news and not skewed to the opinions of the reporters. My journalism classes in college Taught me to make sure that the readers could not tell what my opinion was. That hasn't been the case in years in any story I've read.

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    July 15, 2017 11:03 p.m.

    Don't forget Hillary had some questionable dealings with the Russians before the election. It would seem any reasonable opponent would have wanted to know more about that. Hence meeting with a Russian who claimed to have something to offer. I seen nothing wrong with that. That the media is making a big deal out of it makes me question the media's motives even more.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2017 11:03 p.m.

    Yes, the press keeps getting a Trump falling into self made errors and loss of deniability.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 15, 2017 3:23 p.m.

    Patriot,

    Lets see a DNC staffer goes to the Ukrainian Embassy to get information on Team Trumps involvement with Russia before Hillary Clinton was nominated. The staffer leaves the DNC before Clinton receives the nomination. No information with any substance changes hands compared to the Presidents son, son in law (chief advisor) and campaign chairman set up a meeting in Trump Tower with a person who promises information and is claims the meeting with be with a Russian government attorney. Ya that is pretty much the same.

    Hate to ruin your day Patriot, but I would suspect this drip drip information will continue. When you lie and then tell a lie to cover the first lie and another lie to cover the second and third lies, you just dig yourself a deeper hole. When you cut a deal with the devil, or the Russians in this case, you are going to lose and lose big. I wouldn't be surprised if the source of most of this information is the Russians.

    Trump vs Putin is like a jr. high basketball team taking on the Golden State Warriors. Team Trump is completely out of their league

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    July 15, 2017 9:07 a.m.

    Bob K: "For you who keep repeating "the liberal press/media" -- THINK! They are all corporations competing for audience size, which is how their advertising revenue is set. They would be insane to conspire to agree, because that would destroy their chance for the biggest audience, thus the most income and the most CEO pay."

    You would think that, wouldn't you. But just like Hollywood, ideology trumps money for them in many cases. Family friendly films have been the highest grossing movies for decades, yet Hollywood continues to pump out film after film that have an R rating and exempts a huge audience.

    Guaranteed that CNN, MSNBC and others could have attracted a large audience by fairly reporting some big scandals by Obama and Hillary. Yet they chose not to over and over again because it did not fit their ideology. Digging into corruption is somehow only appealing when it hurts the Republican Party for them.

    It doesn't make much sense economically but it is what it is. I agree with your assessment that this is insane.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2017 8:11 a.m.

    It occurred to me Russia and the United States are converging to a common corrupt corporate oligarchy. The Trump circle and the Putin circle are almost identical.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    July 15, 2017 8:11 a.m.

    "Regardless of the implications of this information, the press’s ability to expose a private meeting of public interest is a reminder to elected officials and aspiring politicians that untoward conduct carried out in the dark will likely be brought to light."

    If this was carried out in an even-handed manner, then I would agree. Even though I am a conservative, I want a press that will hold Republicans accountable when they do something wrong. Unfortunately, if you are an elected official who shares the same ideology as those who are doing the reporting, you can rest easy knowing your misdeeds will go unreported.

    Just like I want a referee in a game that will call penalties on both teams; I want a press that will watch for misdeeds by BOTH parties and call them both out with equal zeal. As a fan, I might like it a whole lot more when the ref calls 'holding' on the other team. But if I see call after call against the other team for ticky-tack fouls and obvious fouls by my own team that go uncalled, then only a rabid FAN will ignore that.

    The press lost all credibility during the last administration when every scandal was 'nothing to see here - move on'.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    July 15, 2017 6:59 a.m.

    @ strom thurmond

    "The forth estate is the fifth column."

    I see a possible Fifth Column too, but think it's those of us buying into demonizing rhetoric. IMO, our willingness to believe the worst of each other creates a fine opening for anyone that wants to exploit this division. Who has been willing (besides foreign adversaries)? Think of the gazillions that certain American individuals and corporations have made off of our outrage.

  • Bob K Davis, CA
    July 15, 2017 4:17 a.m.

    For you who keep repeating "the liberal press/media" -- THINK!

    They are all corporations competing for audience size, which is how their advertising revenue is set. They would be insane to conspire to agree, because that would destroy their chance for the biggest audience, thus the most income and the most CEO pay.

    Fox, owned by the Australian who likes to control the USA, came up with the idea of peddling dishonest reporting that favors Murdoch's objectives. People who want to hate the liberals and who believed republican lies flocked to Fox.
    --- Now we have 1000s of websites, some US, some in Macedonia or whatever, bombarding us with "Hillarys emails" "Obama is a socialist" etc

    Then it starts becoming normal to lie.

    Moreover, anyone who has know a puffed up son or son in law of a company owner recognizes that, like Don Jr, they tend to think that anything they want is OK. I have known many of them

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    July 15, 2017 4:13 a.m.

    If you don't like the TRUTH than label it FAKE NEWS.

    I mean like, if it makes you feel better.

  • SMcloud Sandy, UT
    July 15, 2017 2:43 a.m.

    It is against the law to receive information from a foreign power to influence an election. The fact that Don Jr. was willing to trust the Russians shows that he is corrupt and naive.

    Either way, I want the Trump family out of the White House. His children should not have a place in our administration. I want Trump to divest from his businesses. I want transparency.

    This family will singlehandedly destroy trust in our institutions. Shame.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    July 15, 2017 12:40 a.m.

    Is the press neutral? objective? nonpartisan? That's what an honest press should strive for.

    Using an opinion piece to claim they will save us from fake news is rather humorous. The stories being reported, and the stories that are ignored, tell the truth.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    July 14, 2017 11:40 p.m.

    Who has said there is no need for a free press?
    The passive/aggressive implication that criticisism is a threat to a free press is exactly why poeple should question the press as much as they do their leaders

    Question for Davis? You supported Clinton; where is your outrage over her acceptance of, Russian money for favors; which is far worse than anything Trump has done? Where is the outrage over her acceptance of op research from a foreign governent, as opposed to a bungled attempt? Why should i inherantly believe you about anything, when there has been a pattern of duplicity?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 14, 2017 11:17 p.m.

    "Maybe Trump, Jr. should have borrowed pages from the liberals' play book and erased the email, then maybe he should have "wiped" his equipment, then he should have smashed that eqtment."

    You mean like Romney did when he left office.... is that what you are talking about?

    Really, lets get beyond the partisan part of this game, and see this for what it was. The Russians tested to see how much they could manipulate the Trump campaign. In return, before he even saw what he was going to get, Trump announced "a major speech" he was to give about the Clintons. Trump got no information - no major speech was to be had. But the Russians knew now what cards they had in their hand.

    Ignore that Trump was running as some odd kind of Republican. The fanboys will support what ever he did. The issue is there was an overt attempt to disrupt our system. And if Vlad gets bored with Trump, I have no doubt he will turn on him and try to twist the system the other direction.

    Trusting a dictator to be your friend is a most foolish folly. Republicans need to wake up to how they are being played right now by Reagan's former nemesis.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    July 14, 2017 11:16 p.m.

    Request to all liberals who posted on this article. Tell me what law was broken by Don Jr? I want the federal law that was broken --- save me all the sanctimonious leftist talking points --- just tell me the law that was broken. Second tell me what the difference was when the Ukrainian government met with team Hillary and actually collaborated and produced anti-Trump actionable content? This wasn't a meeting about adoption -- this was a foreign government meeting with Democrats and then producing propoganda against candidate Trump. So both meetings were an attempt to smear a political opponent with the help of a foreign government -- the Ukrainian attempt was successful while the Russian attempt produced nothing. Finally who let this Russian lawyer into the US? Her VISA was banned and AG Lynch allowed her in. That is DEMOCRAT Lynch. Why did Lynch allow her in? Do you care? You should. The US senate is looking into it next week. Your party has a habit of involving itself in suspecious and dubious behavior on a weekly basis and you really ought to care.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    July 14, 2017 8:51 p.m.

    Chulito

    Of course all political candidates to opposition research to find the weaknesses of their opponents.

    But have we ever had a President elected because a foreign government wished it so? Have we ever elected a President whose minions met with foreign government associates to collect dirt from that foreign government? Have we ever elected a President who has lied about his campaign so boldly (and changed his story to lie about the first one and then the second....my head hurts). Have we ever elected a President whose financial life is so intertwined with foreign (and hostile) governments and their associates? This is unprecedented.

    And anyway, the excuse that "the other guy does it too" did not work with your parents when you misbehaved. If you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, it does not matter who else has done it. You got caught. Man up and take your punishment.

    Trump is so busted on this Russian thing. Sooner or later we will all have to come to terms with this ethically and most likely legally deficient man. I only hope the damage he brings is reparable.

  • Chullito Provo, UT
    July 14, 2017 5:57 p.m.

    I truly believe Donald Trump, et al are going to get whatever they deserve. However, the thing that just kills me about all this puffery around what Trump Jr. was doing is that I think most of us take it completely for granted that -- especially during political campaigns -- every candidate is doing this very thing, digging up dirt on the competition. You don't think Hillary et al. were doing it too? They were, perhaps, just smart enough not to get caught.

  • NotSoNaive Lehi, UT
    July 14, 2017 5:03 p.m.

    Your case, which I don't fully endorse, would be better served if you could have used one of the many pending, but not investigated, allegations against Hillary and the DNC.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 14, 2017 3:54 p.m.

    Here's an idea.

    Let's lock up ALL of them: Hillary, Obama and Donald.

    Then maybe we can start to put the train back on its tracks.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 14, 2017 3:41 p.m.

    "I always thought that news people were to report the news. Now they prioritize what news we receive, slant it politically, and sensationalize stories for ratings, public approval, and ratings. It has become a industry of "follow the money". I hope, in time, that this can change."

    That's only true in a few cases -- notably CNN and Fox News.

    As long as we have honest news outlets like NYT, CBS, NBC and especially PBS, we'll be okay.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 14, 2017 3:38 p.m.

    Thank goodness for the Press.

    It's true more than ever that The Truth Is Important, Especially Now.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    July 14, 2017 1:26 p.m.

    J Thompson - SPRINGVILLE, UT
    July 14, 2017 11:15 a.m.

    Give me a break. Those who praise the fourth estate are co-conspirators. No honest paper would heap praise on a media whose credibity no longer exists. Only the naive and the foolish believe what they read, see, or hear in today's "news" media.

    =======

    This opinion page was written by the Deseret News editorial board.
    So you are calling the Deseret News - dishonest.
    You are calling the Deseret News - FAKE News, and it's editors non-credible liars.

    nice... J Thompson....that's all I can say, nice...

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    July 14, 2017 1:13 p.m.

    Mike Richards
    J Thompson

    How can you support a man who calls the press "the enemy of the people"?
    and then also bans the freedom of the press in his own administration?

    How do you reconcile your love of the Constitution whilst supporting of a man - who ALL of us can easily see - is trampling it?

    Donald Trump is NOT exemplifying nor defending the Constitution or the gospel of Jesus Christ.
    How do you sleep at night?
    Seriously, I would like to know...

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    July 14, 2017 12:48 p.m.

    When you've lost Krauthammer, you've lost the sane right. Krauthammer: it's collusion, bungled, keystone-cops collusion after a year of denials. Funny how he's no longer allowed on Hannity's show. The roster of believers and, hence, on-air guests, get shorter and shorter.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    July 14, 2017 11:40 a.m.

    @Common-Tator
    "I noted that even in this DesNews oped, there was no mention of the "other meetings" of this Russian lawyer with members of the party not currently in charge."

    Substance matters a lot. Just meeting with that lawyer isn't a problem, but if your purpose of the meeting is to seek out information from a foreign entity in order to use in the campaign to go after your opponent... that's potentially a violation of a campaign law (one that's similar to the one about not taking campaign donations from foreign sources).

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    July 14, 2017 11:15 a.m.

    Maybe Trump, Jr. should have borrowed pages from the liberals' play book and erased the email, then maybe he should have "wiped" his equipment, then he should have smashed that eqtment. The fourth estate lost all interest in Hillary after she destroyed evidence. Would the fourth estate treat Trump, Jr. with the same "hands-off" attitude. Would the fourth estate close up shop and pretend that nothing happened.

    Give me a break. Those who praise the fourth estate are co-conspirators. No honest paper would heap praise on a media whose credibity no longer exists. Only the naive and the foolish believe what they read, see, or hear in today's "news" media.

  • Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    July 14, 2017 10:38 a.m.

    HSTucker, good quote.

    Is this the same Alan Dershowitz that got OJ Simpson acquitted on the charge of murder?

    Maybe Trump should hire Dershowitz, I have a feeling Donald will need a very good lawyer soon, and I don't mean the current law firm who represents Russian-connected interests that he currently employs.

    And heck, maybe OJ's glove would fit Donald's tiny hands.

  • Drano USA, 00
    July 14, 2017 10:35 a.m.

    So the DN is touting after 11 months of false reporting by multiple media outlets that outing Donald Trump, Jr's meeting with a Russian Lawyer, under false pretenses by the lawyer, is cause for us to believe the media? This is like Burger King or McDonald's proclaiming they have the best burger. It would be like me walking a mile at a 15 minute pace and then saying I can it a 4 x 4 at In and Out Burger. I'm sorry, but the media quit searching for the truth a long time ago and for the DN to say this revelation is proof of doing their jobs is a joke. Here's the formula to media companies (tradinitional, non traditional, digital, social, etc.): ratings = viewers= ad sales = revenue for the media companies. It is simple as that, even for the DN. Media companies want/need as much revenue as they can get.

    No one should trust politicians or the media entirely. Folks should do their own research, gather information and then make an informed decision, no matter what side of the aisle you are on. The last election should've shown you certain media companies are in bed with the left (i.e. Wikileaks); while others lean right.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 14, 2017 10:34 a.m.

    Open Minded,

    I probably should feel honored that you are so concerned with my soul. Maybe you can tell me why the fourth estate is not digging into the deaths of so many of our brothers and sisters who told the press that they had information on the Clinton's. Where's the front page news about the underage sex ring that includes members of Congress, Judges, and world leaders? Who's controlling that database?

    It seems that in today's liberal world that nothing that is moral matters. Your beloved Obama tried to force us to allow grown men in little girls restrooms if those men simply said that they felt like they were female.

    How about the 65,000,000 babies who were torn from their mothers' wombs. That plank is part of the Democrat platform.

    In other words, you might want to take a long hard look at your political heroes before you lecture those of us who demand honesty from the news media.

  • strom thurmond taylorsville, UT
    July 14, 2017 10:27 a.m.

    The forth estate is the fifth column

  • HSTucker Holladay, UT
    July 14, 2017 10:02 a.m.

    "I don’t like criminal investigations to start hoping that you have the target, maybe we’ll find the crime. Maybe we’ll find the statute. If we can’t find the statute we’ll stretch the statute to fit the person. That sounds like Lavrentiy Beria and Joseph Stalin. ‘Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.’ I don’t want to ever see that come to America."
    -- Alan Dershowitz

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 14, 2017 10:01 a.m.

    @Argy1 "Nixon resigned, ...am I the only one who feels like we are heading in a similar direction with the current President? Whether it's the current issues or a future one, I'm thinking it's just a matter of time."

    I think we are headed for a dramatic conclusion, but things could go very differently this time. Trump could simply decide not to leave office, no matter what. Trump leads a mass - near fascist - movement, so a dictatorship is a distinct possibility. We need to think what we are going to do if Trump refuses to go.

  • Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    July 14, 2017 9:47 a.m.

    kreese "But there are older folks out here who have paid attention for many years. For the fourth estate now to pretend how fair and unbiased they are is laughable."

    Yes, kreese, there are older folks out here that have the wisdom to understand that the role of the fourth estate is not to be perfect or to be perfectly unbiased, but to speak truth to power.

    Many older folks forget this when they feel afraid of the younger generation and so cling to anachronistic ideas, like "things were great in the good ol' days..." or "in my day people treated people with respect...". The media outlets that pander to this fear tend to have an older demographic, but can wield a scary amount of power in our country.

    The basic quality of reporting on Fox News is sensationalist.
    We should seek out quality news organizations instead of outlets that support our deeply-held beliefs about the world. They exist, you just have to open widen your horizons.

  • DonO Draper, UT
    July 14, 2017 9:40 a.m.

    I could not agree more. It is, however, unfortunate that ignoring facts in the rush to be "first," and a focus on the sensational and tawdry, have made the news media suspect in the eyes of many. In fact, the media were sinking in public opinion polls long before Trump began his "fake news" tantrums. With that in mind, it could be argued that if the media hadn't put themselves on such a slippery slope, Trump's anti-news tirades wouldn't have so much traction.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    July 14, 2017 9:18 a.m.

    "the lawyer looking to meet with Trump Jr. was described as a “Russian government lawyer"

    Interesting. In the printed version in this morning's paper, I believe this sentence said "incorrectly described as a 'Russian government lawyer.'" I'm assuming the DN edited out the word "incorrectly" after this morning's revelation that there was another Russian operative in the room, a former Russian intelligence officer. Now, what on earth would he be doing in such a meeting, where the only agenda item was Russian adoptions? Right. He probably runs an orphanage.

    Yup. Nothing fishy going on here. We all know where this is leading, and it ain't pretty. But can we find anything about Trump's whole life and career that has been pretty?

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    July 14, 2017 9:05 a.m.

    I appears the question now is who belongs in jail: the Trumps or Hillary. It seems the shoe is on the other foot now. How about the elected representatives in Washington, mainly the GOP, who are derelict in their duties to provide honest government and are implicit in the shenanigans going on in Washington to protect and extend their own personal and partly interest. How many of them should be in jail. Americans need to take back their government from the corrupt Washington politicians or lose democratic freedoms to a fascist bureaucratic oligarchy..

  • Yuge Opportunity Here Mapleton, UT
    July 14, 2017 8:45 a.m.

    The premise of this editorial is a complete non sequitur. at best, it is like a blind squirrel finding an unremarkable nut.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 14, 2017 8:43 a.m.

    I see a lot of people here extolling the virtues of the media past - bringing up things like Cronkite - pretending there was no sensationalizing going on. To do so really if to have an alternate view of history.

    One doesn't need to look very hard at cases where there were previous versions of people like Murdoch who published "biased" news. Hearst was accused of it.... and most of those accusations were accurate. Does no one remember the movie Citizen Kane? Hughes and his publications were equally accused of being biased.

    It is human nature to selectively remember the past. But to say we didn't have this polarized reporting in the past is completely untrue. Heck, it was the hallmark of Ben Franklin - it's how he raised to prominence.

    This fictionalized Cronkite era didn't exist. I was there - I remember the biased reporting of Vietnam and the civil rights era.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    July 14, 2017 8:34 a.m.

    @Mike Richards - South Jordan, Utah
    July 14, 2017 2:02 a.m.

    My confidence in the Deseret News just hit an all time low as they "report" more non-news. They think that reporting a meting that was never held is news even while they fail to report the millions of dollars that Bill and Hillary received from Russia and Hillary's ties to Ukrane. That's the "news" that a real newspaper would report. The fourth estate died during Obama's term. It no longer exists.

    =========

    In other words --

    "News" needs to tell you what you WANT to hear.
    That is placating, not news.

    You can listen to Donald Trump via tweets, and soak in all his FAKE News lies you want.
    Doesn't make it reality, or news.

  • Argy1 Kaysville, UT
    July 14, 2017 8:19 a.m.

    We all know what happened to the last president who took on the Press in a manner similar to Mr. Trump. Nixon resigned, and for good cause. While the liberal side of the Press no doubt is bias against Mr. Trump, am I the only one who feels like we are heading in a similar direction with the current President? Whether it's the current issues or a future one, I'm thinking it's just a matter of time.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 14, 2017 7:57 a.m.

    The biggest issue is with consistency. During the past two elections conservative media was all in arms about if the Clintons took campaign donations from the Chinese - to the point that the Clinton campaign refunded those donations. Like wise was the claims of ethical issues with the Clinton Foundation receiving donations from countries like Saudi Arabia. They questioned if Hillary could be free of influence given the "aid" provided.

    These are honest questions to ask - as it speaks to foreign governments influence with the President. The issue is now we have what seems very clear proof that the Russians sought to influence this election - and yet conservative media and its followers believes this isn't an issue.

    Had Hillary been accused of receiving intelligence from the Castro regime, this would be top line news. To be clear - Putin is as much an enemy of the US as is Castro. But somehow because one side won and the other lost - this is now "fake news".

    I don't like the Clinton political machine any more than I like Trump. It needs to be constantly wrong no matter who. We need to get partisanship out of the media.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 14, 2017 7:55 a.m.

    The Fourth Estate is indispensable in keeping government and individuals accountable, but the War on the Media is entering a new phase, where they will increasingly be fed erroneous information in an attempt to discredit them.

    This is a classic strategy of the increasingly aggressive Russian intelligence apparatus, most recently exposed in the French election, where the (eventual) winner Macron dealt with media manipulation by (suspected) Russian operatives in support of Marine LaPen.

    It's time for the US media to double and triple check sources, because the same foreign power who interfered in our election is trying to damage the 4th Estate, and prop up Trump.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    July 14, 2017 7:33 a.m.

    And who can forget another of the most trusted that being Dan Rather and his totally phony story about Pres. Bush National Guard service. NBC has a long history of editing stories to make them different than they are. Zimmerman tape. Comments of Rudy Giuliani on the travel ban. The media with their Constitutional protection love to place themselves on ivory towers high above everyone else. The media is an important part of our Country but not the media we have now.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 14, 2017 7:15 a.m.

    Unbelievably, the story has gotten quite a bit worse:

    Now it's being revealed that Jr / Kushner / Manafort met with not just the Russian lawyer, but also a Russian-American citizen, who was a former KGB counter intelligence officer, and who is still suspected of being involved in Russian intelligence.

    ...and the original explanation it was all about a children's adoption program reveals how poorly the Trumps regard their own supporters.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    July 14, 2017 5:56 a.m.

    All I can say is that Trump apologists obviously live in a differing universe than the vast majority of the country.

    When commentators such as Hannity and Limbaugh become news sources. We are in trouble. Their ovine listeners gobble up every single conspiracy theory and wacko conjecture and believe it to be truth. Most of America knows this, even some in the GOP who voted for Trump.

    At times the Press does get it wrong. When a reporter does, good journalism demands a retraction. Sometimes the Press fires these reporters for lack of due diligence. Has Fox ever fire anyone for spreading lies? Or retracted a commentators unfounded and damaging comments? Even more to the point, has the President and his entourage of sycophants?

    It would seem to be true that Trump apologists are more worried about truth than fairness. In the case of "Trump vs the Press" it is obvious to most of us that it is an open and shut matter. Trump lies, lies and lies, then lies about his lies. Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive.

  • kreese Ivins, UT
    July 14, 2017 5:34 a.m.

    @Utah girl:
    The Vietnam war was a mistake...could have been won, but Congress doesn't know how to fight wars. But Cronkite should not have been "the most trusted man in America." He lied about the Tet Offensive, and knew it.

  • kreese Ivins, UT
    July 14, 2017 5:25 a.m.

    If the fourth estate wants to attack Trump, they can and will. But there are older folks out here who have paid attention for many years. For the fourth estate now to pretend how fair and unbiased they are is laughable.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 14, 2017 2:02 a.m.

    My confidence in the Deseret News just hit an all time low as they "report" more non-news. They think that reporting a meting that was never held is news even while they fail to report the millions of dollars that Bill and Hillary received from Russia and Hillary's ties to Ukrane. That's the "news" that a real newspaper would report. The fourth estate died during Obama's term. It no longer exists.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    July 13, 2017 11:31 p.m.

    Good job press on this one but restored faith, not sure I'm ready to go there yet.

  • JBs Logan, UT
    July 13, 2017 10:53 p.m.

    Blaming the media is much easier than taking a hard, honest look at the behavior of the person reported as behaving badly. It takes real courage to admit wrongdoing, something sorely lacking in society today.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    July 13, 2017 10:32 p.m.

    A citizen of this country talks to a Russian and we need to hang him. A reporter of this country talks to a Russian and he is doing research. The Democrats collude to eliminate Bernie Sanders from the race and members of Hilary's camp and the DNC collude with Ukraine and forces the Ukrainian government to apologize for their collusion. Where is the equal treatment.

  • Thimk Preston, ID
    July 13, 2017 10:08 p.m.

    In today's environment, the press and the courts are the parties that will save our country's precious constitution, which at this moment "hangs by a thread".

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    July 13, 2017 9:53 p.m.

    You might have a point if the media had taken a similar interest in the campaign activities (and closet skeletons) of similarly situated Democrats. Barack Obama would never have been elected president and Hillary Clinton would long ago have been consigned to the ash heap of history. Until and unless the treatment is even-handed, any extraordinary exertions to reveal things about Republicans will be seen as the nakedly partisan exercise that it long has been. There are very good reasons why the vaunted "fourth estate" simply isn't trusted anymore.

  • liberate Sandy, UT
    July 13, 2017 8:29 p.m.

    @NoNamesAccepted - I'm with you. I lean liberal (maybe more libertarian) but I am with you on the insignificance of the Russia meetings.

    HOWEVER what this has exposed is a tendency, actually more of a pattern, of those in the Trump administration to obfuscate, prevaricate, conceal, etc. discussions that they had. Why not just be forthright from the beginning, as they are required to be in disclosures? At a minimum Trump should get his family out of his administration (Ivanka has no business sitting in as his surrogate - never mind whether she is qualified, SHE IS HIS DAUGHTER).

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for Trump. The mainstream media may be unfair to him but most of this is his own doing by his poor management decisions.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 13, 2017 7:40 p.m.

    I've never lost confidence in the fourth estate, in spite of the constant din of people trying to turn it into my enemy.
    The truths of which the news media speaks make many very uncomfortable.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    July 13, 2017 6:56 p.m.

    How soon we forget wikileaks and how they told us what was going on with the DNC. That story was a journalists dream, and the fourth estate was to busy. It's not what's reported, but what's not reported. As the media makes choices of what the public should know.

    The fourth estate has failed. When was the last time we read honest articles on how illegal immigration has affected Americans and immigrants that have come here the correct way?

    Going after Trump over unproven sources has further destroyed their credibility. If the press needs people telling them what they are doing wrong, then the situation is worse than we thought.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2017 6:43 p.m.

    @NonamesAccepted "And what exactly is this story? The son of a candidate (not incumbent) met with an unsavory person in hopes of getting opposition research on his dad's opponent?"

    Not even close. Three of Trump's inner circle met with an attorney who has close ties to Putin's inner circle. And the Trump people knew the connections.

  • peabody Steamboat Springs, CO
    July 13, 2017 6:06 p.m.

    A free press is important to a free country.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 13, 2017 5:55 p.m.

    @ patriot

    "This was not the case back in the days of Cronkite."

    Walter Cronkite was a very strong advocate against the Vietnam War.

    LBJ knew once he lost Cronkite, he would be up against a tidal wave of resistance.

    His actual quote was, "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America."[

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    July 13, 2017 5:34 p.m.

    The free press is long dead. About 10 years dead. Replacing it is advocacy media which doesnt report the news but instead create their chosen narrative and then produce propaganda...which is usually light years from the truth. This was not the case back in the days of Cronkite and Brocaw. That was real news reported by professionals.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    July 13, 2017 5:33 p.m.

    I'm sorry, but with all the terrible, slanted, spun articles that have passed for "news" the last few years, and with all the real news that was deemed "un-newsworthy" most likely because it didn't fit someone's preferred narrative, one story that contains some truth is hardly going to redeem modern media.

    And what exactly is this story? The son of a candidate (not incumbent) met with an unsavory person in hopes of getting opposition research on his dad's opponent?

    I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling in this establishment.

    Again, what exactly is so shocking or important about this story except that it relates to Trump and there is a tenuous connection to Russia? So fun to see liberals running around spreading Red fear these days.

    Who did Hillary and her supporters meet with in hopes of digging up dirt on Trump? Or any of Bill Clinton's victims for that matter?

    Most of the mainstream media has fallen way too far for this single, mostly non-story, to redeem any of them.

    Locally, how about a deep investigation into the true costs/benefit of fixed rail mass transit?

  • The True Open Minded Mormon Draper, UT
    July 13, 2017 5:32 p.m.

    Looks like these pages are overrun with Progressive apologists. Just look at all the commentators that run to disparage anything Trump, Republican, Mormon or Utah.

    The press has proved itself unworthy of trust by people. Wikileaks proved that the press is just the bloviating arm of the Progressive movement, in particular the DNC.

    The press does all it can to destroy anything that is good or American or Constitutional. Why? because that diminishes their power. The press is no better than Hatch when he ran on the word POWER. That's all DC and the press are about.

    Trump and the tea party has worked hard to blow up that power scheme. It's hard since it has been in place for decades.

    If I ever saw the press go after Obama, Pelosi or Reid in the fashion they did after Palin and now Trump, I might believe they have integrity. As it stands now, they've proven they have none.

    The Dnews isn't much better.

  • forevercougar Orem, UT
    July 13, 2017 5:06 p.m.

    It would be news if every reporter that posted a negative review on someone or some event had to balance it out with a positive review of the same person or comparable event. Unless, of course, the person has no redeeming value or positives accomplished--even then, would you be justified in becoming their judge and jury. A little more patience and balancing needed.

  • forevercougar Orem, UT
    July 13, 2017 4:51 p.m.

    I always thought that news people were to report the news. Now they prioritize what news we receive, slant it politically, and sensationalize stories for ratings, public approval, and ratings. It has become a industry of "follow the money". I hope, in time, that this can change.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    July 13, 2017 4:43 p.m.

    For those who do not like a free press - maybe you'd be happier in places that don't have a free press. You know, places like Russia, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela. For those that don't like The New York Times or The Washington Post or CNN, feel free to patronize The Wall Street Journal or The Washington Times or Fox News.
    Donald Trump and his gang have demonstrated how inspired our Founding Fathers really were.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 13, 2017 4:39 p.m.

    The free press is a vital part of our democracy, one that the rest of the world can only hope to emulate.

    Trump loved Wikileaks, all the while failing to acknowledge it was stolen and then leaked.

    Trump loved feeding stories to the media about his love life when he was a real estate mogul. Who can ever forget John Baron?

    Trump will quote pro-Trump stories from the Washington Post and New York Times even if they're anonymously sourced. The hypocrisy doesn't seem to bother Trump or his media-hating supporters.

    Now Trump is only able to fall into the loving arms of Sean Hannity for some instant rehab, Christianity Today or Pat Robertson. That's a coward's approach. Legitimate media doesn't toss out puffball questions. The adversarial relationship between government and media has withstood for generations. It can't be boot lickers serving their master.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    July 13, 2017 4:36 p.m.

    Great letter.

    The press might not always get it right, but their track record is impeccable compared to Trumps ignorance, arrogance and outright deception.
    Never thought a president of the United States would prefer the national enquirer and breibart to intelligence reports from a myriad of professionals.

  • The Real Maverick Spanish Fork, UT
    July 13, 2017 4:28 p.m.

    So when can I expect apologies from rush, Sean, and trump for accusing the 4th estate of lying when in reality it was Donald who was lying? After all, whenever the times brought up Russian collusion, the trump's adamantly denied they had any communications with the Russians. Rush and Sean continue today insulting the truth media as being fake news.

    Why haven't they apologized? And why aren't they demanding that trump apologize for lying for the last year? What are things has trump lied about?

    Well, have no fear, the 4th estate will soon find it! God Bless the Truth Media of this country! They are true Americans and make me so proud!

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    July 13, 2017 4:17 p.m.

    In our opinion: Donald Trump Jr. revelations instill faith in the Fourth Estate

    =======

    Agreed.

    Just remember --

    Donald Trump - the President, Sworn to protect and defend the Constitution - HATES the press.
    All of it.
    He has even declared the Press the "Enemy of the People".

    The Press is the Government watch-dog.
    The Press uncovered Watergate.

    Yet -- Trump has the Whitehouse Press under media black-outs, no-cameras, no recordings.

    Everything the Founding Fathers feared the most -- Tyranny.

    The Press is the Enemy of Tyranny -- NOT the People!
    Democracy Dies in Darkness ~ Washington Post.

  • Common-Tator Saint Paul, MN
    July 13, 2017 4:14 p.m.

    I noted that even in this DesNews oped, there was no mention of the "other meetings" of this Russian lawyer with members of the party not currently in charge. Failure to do due diligence, or in its place, to do selective reporting, is why the 4th estate is at it's currently low level of trust. I hope DesNews never reaches such a level where their reporting fits the accusations that seem to be accurately directed at many of today's media outlets, thus causing that loss of trust.