Brad Rock: Wisconsin? LSU? Utah? BYU needs to look out for UMass

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  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 15, 2017 2:51 p.m.

    "When BYU beats Utah, I'd be curious to see what you would say if BYU fans act the way you Ute "fans" are acting now."

    Riverton coog:

    Right back at you. What will you say if Ute fans regurgitate an endless litany of 'ifs', 'gifts', 'yardage trophies', '3-quarter domination', 'new OC' and other, similar excuses?

    But, coog 'fans' should save such speculation until it actually happens. But I understand why you can't--it's all you got these days.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 15, 2017 10:46 a.m.

    @JohnInSLC

    Utah's ability to capitalize on the situation slightly better than BYU in recent close games does not equate to "dominance". The fact that last year's game came down to the last play shows how close it was. The fact that Utah capitalized better on that final play does not change the fact that it was a close game.

    When BYU beats Utah, I'd be curious to see what you would say if BYU fans act the way you Ute "fans" are acting now. Suppose next month the game is extremely close, coming down to the last play, and BYU comes out on top. I know, I know... you guys are 100% positive that there is no way that this could happen because BYU will never ever beat Utah ever again, but let's just play make believe (a game you guys are great at). Now suppose BYU fans claim to have "dominated". What would you say? Suppose in that same situation, later that year, Utah ends up barely ranked in one or both polls (AP and Coaches), while BYU just receives a few votes. What would you say?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 14, 2017 11:48 p.m.

    Riverton coog:

    What TDUtes didn't mention is that despite giving up 6 turnovers the Utes still won last year, showcasing BYU-P's inability to capitalize. The Ute's ability to capitalize in the LV Bowl led to a different result.

    0-for-6 doesn't support the coog "evenly matched" narrative. If they were, BYU-P would have won last year. Alternately, coog fans cling to the "best team didn't win" drivel.

    Stop trying to tell us how good the coogs really are. Save it for when your team actually wins one.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 14, 2017 8:56 p.m.

    "Not only that, if Utah didn't have 6 turnovers in the rivalry game, the score would have been much different."

    While you're at it with all the ifs, how would the LV bowl game have gone if BYU didn't have those 5 turnovers in their first 5 possessions?

    "Who's fault is it? They are independent, they created this mess."

    You're right, BYU going independent is what caused the teams they scheduled to have down years. Darn BYU keeps messing their seasons up!

  • red.diehard Central, UT
    Aug. 14, 2017 8:00 p.m.

    "In short, five of their first seven games are against top-40 teams. But this year they also face seven teams among the bottom 42. This isn’t BYU’s fault."

    Who's fault is it? They are independent, they created this mess.

  • TouchdownUtes Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 14, 2017 3:38 p.m.

    london_josh said, "Ummm, actually BYU lost by a single point at Utah with a new OC and new system, so "about equal" actually is a fact."

    london.....if your assessment is right about BYU being "about equal" with Utah, then why wasn't BYU ranked in all 3 major polls last year like Utah? I don't see that as being "actually a fact."
    Besides, you lost by 1 point, but you also BARELY beat an Arizona team and you lost to UCLA.....both of which were beaten by the Utes. Not only that, if Utah didn't have 6 turnovers in the rivalry game, the score would have been much different.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Aug. 13, 2017 1:32 a.m.

    gonefishn,

    I don't think so.

    It depends on the wins and losses. I don't think that a 2 loss MWC team goes to an NY6, I'd think that a 1 loss team might have a chance if the team they lot to went to the playoffs.

    When BYU won an NC it wasn't that they went undefeated, they went the previous season with a single close loss in the opening game, they went 25 games undefeated.

    While personally I think that Utah deserved a shot at the NC in 2008, they didn't because 2007 (and 2009) were okay years but not great years.

    It's still all circumstantial.

    If we wanted to be fair it would work like this: 5 G5 put their champions against each other plus the best ranked indy team, that is 3 games and 3 winners added to the P5 champions for 8 teams, then you do quarter finals, semi finals, and championship game.

    I think it would be a ridiculous amount of extra revenue, no G5 team would object to a few more games (payouts would be significant) - but ultimately this is a business and not a game. Odds are still stacked against less affiliated teams, I think they always will be and that's just how it is - not much difference from yesteryear.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2017 10:41 p.m.

    @jello is good
    My point is, it's much easier for a non p5 team to get into a New Years 6 game than in the bcs era. If byu was in the MWC or AAC and they had a season like 2006 (2 loses) they would find themselves in a NY6 game. Now they have to go undefeated.
    @Rockwell
    I never mentioned the Utes.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Aug. 12, 2017 9:14 a.m.

    "To your point that BYU would initially struggle playing 9-10 P5 teams a year doesn't mean your team is "about equal" with Utah. That's not being arrogant....it's just a fact. "

    Ummm, actually BYU lost by a single point at Utah with a new OC and new system, so "about equal" actually is a fact.

    How BYU would do in a P5 is nothing but pure conjecture, but thanks for playing.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:56 p.m.

    "To your point that BYU would initially struggle playing 9-10 P5 teams a year doesn't mean your team is 'about equal' with Utah. That's not being arrogant....it's just a fact. "

    Well, so I guess that since Utah was an instant contender their first season in the PAC, you're right, that clearly makes them much better than BYU, not "about equal". But hey, what do I know, I'm just a dumb BYU fan.

  • TouchdownUtes Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 3:23 p.m.

    RivertonCougar......if I remember right, you were arguing that BYU and Utah last year were "about equal." Last year's BYU schedule and this year's as well shoots that theory completely out of the water! To your point that BYU would initially struggle playing 9-10 P5 teams a year doesn't mean your team is "about equal" with Utah. That's not being arrogant....it's just a fact. But let's see how this works out on September 9th.....

  • Jello is Good ,
    Aug. 11, 2017 1:54 p.m.

    @83Ute - Ogden/Weber, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:19 a.m.

    "Utah hasn't gotten beat by the Aggies since 2012. I'm not sure what game you are referring to 3 years ago. Please expound."

    Oh you sure showed us. It was four years ago, not three. I don't know how we could have made such a huge error. That changes the conversation altogether.

  • Jello is Good ,
    Aug. 11, 2017 1:48 p.m.

    @83Ute - Ogden/Weber, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 11:40 a.m.

    "Wyoming did not win the MWC last year. Thus, they were not the MWC champion."

    Oh you are so right. They won the mountain division while SDSU won the west division with an identical 6-2 record but lost out in the championship game by 3 points. Both of those teams were closer to a championship then Utah or Indiana by about 3 wins.

    Dude, the point being made is that BYU would be in no better position with the quality of teams played or the bowls they play in if they were still in the MWC. In fact the opposite is the case with a whole lot more money and exposure.

  • top of the world ,
    Aug. 11, 2017 11:45 a.m.

    Tomahawk Red...here we go with the lol again. But kidding (good for the inner organs) why would the Y not at least be in line for a playoff spot if they were to win every game? Will they win every game...hang on while I check my sure-wins list. Nuts, the list blew off the peak and is heading for China. But I can still offer up a good prognostication...if the Y goes unbeaten they will not only be in the running for the playoffs, they will be included.

    Now, with that comment, our friends in red up on the hill will claim that I am predicting an undefeated season and a national championship. Such a stretch of imagination. Try this one on for size, the Y will win ANOTHER national championship in football before the team up north wins their first, a comment made with the author of said comment knowing full well that neither of these two scenarios are likely to happen.

    As far as the accurate conclusion of the article is concerned, the writer was right on in suggesting the main culprit to deal with as the Y meets teams they "should" defeat is apathy. I will add, in closing, the toughest of the non-tough will be Hawaii. My best to all of you creative contributors.

  • 83Ute Ogden/Weber, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 11:40 a.m.

    @Jello (9:10 am):

    Wyoming did not win the MWC last year. Thus, they were not the MWC champion.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Aug. 11, 2017 10:45 a.m.

    Henry D

    "BYU has to be guard against looking past UMass to the all-important New Mexico State game the following week though."

    Nice try, but BYU plays Hawaii the following week.

    Lifetime versus Hawaii
    BYU 20-5
    Utah 6-9

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:56 a.m.

    I always look forward to the annual rivalry game between BYU and UMass. The atmosphere is totally electric and you never know what's going to happen. BYU has to be guard against looking past UMass to the all-important New Mexico State game the following week though.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:44 a.m.

    "Again, not all P5 teams are the same, but I would submit that if BYU played 9-10 P5 teams a year like Utah does, they would rise and pout over the losses."

    Of course you think that BYU would lose those games - but do you know that they would?

    My guess, is that it would be something like what Utah has done - annual SOS trophy and not much else because our September is their November.

    We can speculate all we want, but we don't know, any any speculation putting BYU in a vastly different camp than Utah is just wild speculation anyway.

    How would BYU do? you don't know - but the reasonable guess is that they'd win some games and lose others.

    Last year no game was lost by more than 3 points and the combined losses were an 8 point difference - so close to something amazing with a new HC and new OC and system that was rebuilding - BYU fans have the right to be optimistic and there is no reason to dwell on a scenario of speculation on something we won't see this season. BYU will likely remain independent for at least a few more years, I'd love to see BYU in a P5 but they are making good with independence for now.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:38 a.m.

    "The most telling part of this article reveals just how weak BYU's schedule is after the end of September.....playing bottom ranked teams.....a built-in 6 wins.....and then BYU flexes their muscles that they're the best in the country."

    Flex their muscles that they're the best in the country? Serious question: when are you guys going to stop making up things and claim that BYU fans do them (such as brag about losses, predict national championships and undefeated seasons every year, claim to be the best in the country, etc.)?

    "Again, not all P5 teams are the same, but I would submit that if BYU played 9-10 P5 teams a year like Utah does, they would rise and pout over the losses."

    BYU would probably struggle for a few years, and lose more games than they're used to, but I wouldn't say they would "pout" over the losses.

  • 83Ute Ogden/Weber, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:19 a.m.

    @kaysvillecoug (3:54 pm):

    "Ask Utah how good Utah State was 3 years ago when they got beat by the Aggies."

    Utah hasn't gotten beat by the Aggies since 2012. I'm not sure what game you are referring to 3 years ago. Please expound.

  • My Rash is Red ,
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:15 a.m.

    @KimmyP - Grantsville, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 8:14 a.m.

    "When looking at BYU's schedule each year, the adage about putting lipstick on a pig, quickly comes to mind. πŸ’„"

    Well, I guess you know a lot more about pigs than I do, so I'll have to trust you on that. It scares me that dressing up a farm animal is what quickly comes to mind in any scenario, but to each there own.

  • Jello is Good ,
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:10 a.m.

    @gonefishn
    "Rock's statement, "it's not their fault" when he refers to Byu's incredibly soft schedule, is puzzling. Who's fault is it?
    Obviously, Byu has nobody to blame but themselves for the deadend they have chosen."

    You are right, it is BYU's fault that they chose independence. And by the standards they choose to live by in an uncompromising way, it is also their fault they are not in a P5. But you know what? I'll own that and be proud of it.

    And as to where they would be if they stayed in the MWC, I think at worst it is a push as to the average competitiveness of their schedule. They play a handful of teams that are much better than they would have seen if they stayed in the MWC and a handful that are worse. At the end, either way, with the exception of an undefeated or one loss season, they are playing for an invitation to an average bowl. (See last year with BYU playing MWC champ Wyoming)

    But what is different with independence is the money and exposure which is exponentially greater than in the MWC. And, oh by the way, if the ESPN contract were to ever go away, the MWC and Mid-American conference would be fighting to get BYU in the fold.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:08 a.m.

    longversion

    "Why are you putting lipstick on pigs?"

    That's what Utah fans do after every middle of the PAC South finish.

    Then they dust off another shelf in their trophy closet for their latest SOS trophy.

  • Jello is Good ,
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:03 a.m.

    @CO Ute - PARKER, CO
    Aug. 10, 2017 8:07 p.m.

    "I think a few of the Y fans here need to take a step back and look at the concept of the article, not just the title. I didn't take Rock seriously suggesting that BYU will lose to UMass but that he is suggesting apathy could be an issue with the schedule this year. A very good showing at the front end of the season could be hampered with a loss in any of the final few games."

    I actually agree with you Cutie Ute. Back in the WAC days BYU played some dreadful teams like New Mexico, UTEP and yes, even Utah at the time. But what got the national people noticing BYU was that they just didn't win those games. They destroyed those teams with scores like 63-3 and 45-0. Had they just merely beat average to lousy teams, nobody notices.

    As a fan I am hopeful for the first part of our schedule, but as a realist, I see a couple of losses. (And "no", Utah is not one of them.) But win or lose in those games, for Portland State and the last 6 games on the schedule, the average score needs to be 45-0 or better to get the national media talking about us the way they use to. Until then, we are just another average to good team.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 9:03 a.m.

    tdute

    "The most telling part of this article reveals just how weak BYU's schedule is after the end of September..."

    NOPE!

    The most telling part of this article reveals...

    just how clueless you are about BYU's schedule.

    BYU plays Boise St and Miss St in October.

    Remind us the last time Utah beat either of those teams.

    As far as gimmes go, how many times have the Utes lost to MWC teams like UNLV and Hawaii?

    Do the numbers 0-27 and 6-9 strike a bell?

    Next time, do a little research before spouting off.

  • longversion SANDY, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 8:37 a.m.

    KimmyP
    "When looking at BYU's schedule each year, the adage about putting lipstick on a pig, quickly comes to mind. πŸ’„"

    Why are you putting lipstick on pigs? 😱

  • longversion SANDY, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 8:34 a.m.

    @Gonefishin calls BYU's independence a dead end. That's funny considering this dead end has produced some of the best schedules in the history of BYU football. It has garnered a contract with ESPN allowing me and BYU Nation the ability to watch just about every game on the schedule week in and week out. It has brought more press and national recognition than at any time in the WAC or MWC eras.

    Wow, that's some dead end. Now when does Utah get their turn on PAC12 TV? And where exactly can I find it?

  • TouchdownUtes Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 8:34 a.m.

    The most telling part of this article reveals just how weak BYU's schedule is after the end of September.....playing bottom ranked teams.....a built-in 6 wins.....and then BYU flexes their muscles that they're the best in the country. Again, not all P5 teams are the same, but I would submit that if BYU played 9-10 P5 teams a year like Utah does, they would rise and pout over the losses.

  • KimmyP Grantsville, UT
    Aug. 11, 2017 8:14 a.m.

    When looking at BYU's schedule each year, the adage about putting lipstick on a pig, quickly comes to mind. πŸ’„

  • BYUKSU Las Vegas, NV
    Aug. 11, 2017 5:51 a.m.

    We need to worry about Portland State first. Not that we are going to lose that game but lets win the first one then worry about the next one after that. UMass is down the line, lets hope by that time they are still looking for a New Years Bowl game.

  • BobbyPaluga Austin, TX
    Aug. 11, 2017 4:27 a.m.

    I get the point Rock, the trap game(s) won't be UMass however. Who has the most to prove, the biggest grudge and the most to gain in beating BYU? Try MWC opponents who have been battered and throughly embarrassed playing BYU? No, it isn't Fresno State, but UNLV and Hawaii.
    I expect Matt Wells to be gone by the time the Uggies play BYU. Without Gary Anderson's players the USU fortunes are dropping like lead ingots. Wells, can only get his kids to play for 3 quarters. Fresno with a new, very old coach will take years to become respectable.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 10, 2017 11:50 p.m.

    gonefishn

    "Until they [BYU] join a conference they will have to watch teams like Boise State, Houston, Western Michigan and Central Florida play in the New Years 6 bowl games."

    LOL

    Remind us the last time the mighty PAC 12 Utes

    played in an NY6 bowl

    or

    beat three straight Top 25 teams

    or

    won a PAC 12 championship.

    It's hilarious how Utah fans love spouting off about accomplishments that the Utes have never even achieved.

    Enjoy your SOS trophy.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2017 10:48 p.m.

    Rock's statement, "it's not their fault" when he refers to Byu's incredibly soft schedule, is puzzling. Who's fault is it?
    Obviously, Byu has nobody to blame but themselves for the deadend they have chosen. No conference race, no point after one loss and no access to the playoff. Until they join a conference they will have to watch teams like Boise State, Houston, Western Michigan and Central Florida play in the New Years 6 bowl games.
    Byu season ticket holders get the shaft shelling out big money to watch horrible visiting teams, on a school night with an 8:30pm kickoff. At least A few good teams are coming to LES this year.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    Aug. 10, 2017 9:48 p.m.

    Brad, stick to your sarcastic articles about little red.
    Why is there any reason to think BYU is suseptible to falling in the back half? BYU waxed all their 'easy' opponents last year and barely lost to the big opponents. It's clear the coaches have their players ready. Of course we know they could fall, but pointing out Massachusetts as the team to fear is a ridiculous stretch. Pick East Carolina or Hawaii. Those are the only realistic fathomable possible losses.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2017 8:08 p.m.

    LOL at Rock throwing a bone to the haters.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    Aug. 10, 2017 8:07 p.m.

    I think a few of the Y fans here need to take a step back and look at the concept of the article, not just the title. I didn't take Rock seriously suggesting that BYU will lose to UMass but that he is suggesting apathy could be an issue with the schedule this year. A very good showing at the front end of the season could be hampered with a loss in any of the final few games.

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    Aug. 10, 2017 7:32 p.m.

    Brad already has them losing to a crummy team late in the season, yet not a down has been played. Interesting spin for Ute fans, no doubt.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    Aug. 10, 2017 6:53 p.m.

    byu can start arguing for a playoff spot... with 1 loss... with THAT schedule Brad?

    LOL!!!

    They'll be lucky if they can argue for a playoff spot undefeated.

  • KimmyP Grantsville, UT
    Aug. 10, 2017 6:50 p.m.

    LOL @kaysville cougar

    I assume you have heard the old adage about putting lipstick on a pig?

  • PDX_CougarFan Milwaukie, OR
    Aug. 10, 2017 6:45 p.m.

    They need to look out for UMass when they make the schedule, not on the football field. I hope they can figure out how to get some better games late in the season.

  • Vladhagen Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2017 4:44 p.m.

    Wait. What?

    This seems like a major grasp. Does BYU lose some stupid games occasionally? Yeah. But UMass? Hawaii I could see. But UMass?

    What's next, an article about how Utah keeps bringing in cast offs from other programs? Oh wait.........already been done.

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    Aug. 10, 2017 3:54 p.m.

    Dog-on-it Brad. You've been hanging around too many ute fans lately. Did you know that all P5 teams do not equal quality and many non P5 teams are really really good depending on the year? Specifically the year where BYU lost to the 4 teams you mentioned, they beat 3 weak P5 teams. Why don't we try to be intellectually honest and call a good team good? Some of those teams that beat BYU that year were good teams. Ask Utah how good Utah State was 3 years ago when they got beat by the Aggies.